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Some Improvements Made to the POTW Submission Form

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Chris L T521

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Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
995
Hey everyone,

I wanted to inform you of a couple changes that I made to the POTW solution submission form.

1) When you submit a solution from now on, you will receive a PM containing the contents of what you submitted. This may be useful because it will give you a chance to look over your solution again to make sure that's what you want "graded" at the end of the week. Thus, if you find a mistake that you want to correct, feel free to submit a new solution. I personally have no qualms with multiple submissions as long as you note each time that you made changes to your original solution (or each subsequent solution if you keep coming across errors). I suppose that if someone makes some absurd amount of submissions for a single problem in a week, I'll be forced to establish some sort of cap for how many times you can resubmit, but I trust you guys won't have to resubmit your solution more than twice. (Smile)

2) In this thread, it seemed to be the case that it wasn't possible to upload attachments to your POTW solution. Well, lo and behold, as I went to enable the option that sent a copy of your solution to you via PM, I stumbled across the option that allowed attachments in your submissions. With that said, I've enabled that feature as well; thus, if you want to include a figure/diagram in your solution, you don't necessarily have to rely on image hosting sites to do so.
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
This is very good news for MHB, Chris! (Yes)

The idea of people receiving a copy of their solution by PM is simply a stroke of genius. (Cool)

Even if there are no corrections/additions to be made, giving people a copy to keep is a nice feature to have been added.

Like you, I seriously doubt you and Jameson will encounter people making a multitude of corrections. But if this issue does arise in the future, the idea of a cap sounds like an appropriate measure to take.

And while uploading to an image hosting site was not a huge drawback, being able to attach images now will certainly streamline the process.

So, thank you for making these great changes! (Star)

edit: I want to mention that I took a look at the POTW form now, and attaching images will have to be done via the Manage Attachments option at the bottom of the form. :D
 
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Chris L T521

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Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
995
edit: I want to mention that I took a look at the POTW form now, and attaching images will have to be done via the Manage Attachments option at the bottom of the form. :D
Right; it's the exact same process as how one would attach an image or file to a post in a thread (and it's located in a similar area to where it appears when you reply to a thread.
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
Right; it's the exact same process as to how you attach an image or file to a post in a thread.
Normally, when I attach an image to a post in a thread, I use the following button on our toolbar:

imageattach.jpg

and I get the following dialog box:

imageattach2.jpg

which as you can see allows me to either upload from my hard drive or link to a URL. However, on the POTW submission form, the option to upload from my hard drive is not given. This is the only way I have ever attached images to my posts. :D
 

anemone

MHB POTW Director
Staff member
Feb 14, 2012
3,682
Hi Chris, I too tested the feature of uploading attachments to POTW solutions by "pretending" to submit a solution to a POTW and when I clicked on the insert image button, it required me to paste the url of an online image. So I tried another method to attach the image and this time I tried to click on the "Manage Attachements" button. I received the following message.

vB message.JPG

What have I done wrong here?

BTW, kudos to all the changes made to benefit the submitters of POTW!
 
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Chris L T521

Well-known member
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
995
Hi Chris, I too tested the feature of uploading attachments to POTW solutions by "pretending" to submit a solution to a POTW and when I clicked on the insert image button, it required me to paste the url of an online image. So I tried another method to attach the image and this time I tried to click on the "Manage Attachements" button. I received the following message.

View attachment 1643

What have I done wrong here?

BTW, kudos to all the changes made to benefit the submitters of POTW!
Hmmm...something funky is going on with regards to permissions here. I'm going to mess around with things and see if I can get them to work out.

Update #1: I figured out what's causing the problem; once you submit the form, it gets posted in a hidden subforum that only the global mods and admins can see. Thus, you can liken the submission process to posting in that hidden subforum. However, if you don't have the right permissions for that subforum, you apparently can't attach anything to this form. Right now, I'm trying to figure out the minimal required permissions that would allow you guys to upload attachments in this subforum while maintaining it's hidden nature.

Update #2: After messing around with the POTW Member Solutions forum permissions for the MHB Site Helpers group (sorry guys if I confused any of you while I was doing this; your permissions are back to normal now), I discovered that I need to enable all four of the following permissions in order for you guys to upload attachments:

1) Can View Forum
2) Can View Thread Content
3) Can Create Threads
4) Can Upload Attachments

If the first permission is set to "No", then it nullifies whatever options I set for the other three. If I say "Yes" for the first (at which point it will no longer be hidden), the other three MUST be enabled, otherwise you're going to get the error anemone shared with us. All the other permissions for that forum would be set to "No", so you wouldn't be able to see other threads except your own; you also wouldn't be able to make any edits to your posts or reply to them, etc. In essence, you would be very restricted in what you can do in that forum.

Now, depending on what Ackbach and Jameson have to say about allowing you guys access in this way, there's a chance where we'll have to drop the idea of letting you guys include attachments.

However, if we hypothetically decide to go through with this, there would be at least one additional rule imposed by me: If anyone started any thread in that subforum that isn't a solution to that week's POTW, they would receive a 10 point infraction. I trust you guys wouldn't do that in the first place, but I just want to make it clear that nothing but POTW solutions belong in that forum.

With that said, I have nothing else to add to this issue at this time until I hear what Ackbach and Jameson have to say about all of this.
 

anemone

MHB POTW Director
Staff member
Feb 14, 2012
3,682
I want to say that while direct upload is much more easier and convenient to work with, I don't mind displaying the image from another free image hosting site too.

Having said this, I appreciate the admins' efforts for always trying to make MHB a better place for its users.
 

Ackbach

Indicium Physicus
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,192
Update #2: After messing around with the POTW Member Solutions forum permissions for the MHB Site Helpers group (sorry guys if I confused any of you while I was doing this; your permissions are back to normal now), I discovered that I need to enable all four of the following permissions in order for you guys to upload attachments:

1) Can View Forum
2) Can View Thread Content
3) Can Create Threads
4) Can Upload Attachments

If the first permission is set to "No", then it nullifies whatever options I set for the other three. If I say "Yes" for the first (at which point it will no longer be hidden), the other three MUST be enabled, otherwise you're going to get the error anemone shared with us. All the other permissions for that forum would be set to "No", so you wouldn't be able to see other threads except your own; you also wouldn't be able to make any edits to your posts or reply to them, etc. In essence, you would be very restricted in what you can do in that forum.

Now, depending on what Ackbach and Jameson have to say about allowing you guys access in this way, there's a chance where we'll have to drop the idea of letting you guys include attachments.
My gut reaction is that we just forego the attachments. Why? Because it seems to me that access to the solutions forum for normal users would cheapen the POTW experience irretrievably. Maybe I'm wrong, but the temptation to look first before attempting your own solution would make the POTW a very different thing.
 
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Chris L T521

Well-known member
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
995
My gut reaction is that we just forego the attachments. Why? Because it seems to me that access to the solutions forum for normal users would cheapen the POTW experience irretrievably. Maybe I'm wrong, but the temptation to look first before attempting your own solution would make the POTW a very different thing.
If those 4 options I mentioned were enabled and everything else is set to no, it would be impossible for members to peep in on other people solutions. The option that would allow members to see all the other threads in the forum would be the "Can View Other's Threads"; since that would be set to no, the only thread(s) that would be visible to each member would be their own submission threads.
 

Ackbach

Indicium Physicus
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,192
If those 4 options I mentioned were enabled and everything else is set to no, it would be impossible for members to peep in on other people solutions. The option that would allow members to see all the other threads in the forum would be the "Can View Other's Threads"; since that would be set to no, the only thread(s) that would be visible to each member would be their own submission threads.

Either way, given the circumstances, I think that we should probably forgo attachment as well.
Oh. Well, from my perspective that changes everything. I don't care if people can see their own solutions, just so long as they can't see anyone else's.

That was my only objection, so I'm good with enabling these permissions so that people can do attachments for POTW submissions.
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
Oh. Well, from my perspective that changes everything. I don't care if people can see their own solutions, just so long as they can't see anyone else's.

That was my only objection, so I'm good with enabling these permissions so that people can do attachments for POTW submissions.
While I acknowledge that permissions issues are ultimately the responsibility of the MHB Administrators, I agree with Ackbach and see no harm in allowing people to see their solutions, given that they cannot see those of anyone else.

But, I am fine either way, as the issue at the root of this, attaching images, is very minor, given the easy workaround of uploading to an image hosting site. :D
 

Ackbach

Indicium Physicus
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,192
Chris @ 6, Update 2: For the Third Permission, I assume you meant "Can Post Threads", right? I have enabled those four options, and only those four, for registered users on up. As you did all the leg work of figuring out what permissions to do, why don't you go ahead and make the announcement? (Probably good to make it a must-read thread for everyone). And maybe in that thread, you can also spell out your new rule about solutions, and only solutions, belonging in that subforum.
 

Jameson

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,041
I wish it were possible to do this without unhiding the POTW solutions forum, but if that's the only way then I support it. Have we tested out that people can only see their own solution though?

The only thing that makes me nervous is what Chris mentioned about being able to make new threads in the forum not through the form, but hopefully that won't be an issue. If we can confirm that the configuration Chris found definitely works properly then I support this. (Yes).
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
I wish it were possible to do this without unhiding the POTW solutions forum, but if that's the only way then I support it. Have we tested out that people can only see their own solution though?

The only thing that makes me nervous is what Chris mentioned about being able to make new threads in the forum not through the form, but hopefully that won't be an issue. If we can confirm that the configuration Chris found definitely works properly then I support this. (Yes).
I logged on using the test account, and submitted a solution, with an attachment with no permissions issues. The PM containing my submission was sent successfully, and once I used my normal account to approve the submission, I now have access to the submission, and to it only, in the POTW Member Solutions sub-forum. I cannot edit it, or reply, but I can view it.

I then posted another topic directly in that sub-forum, and like the solution posted through the POTW form, it requires moderator approval.

I will now clean up the posts I just made. :D
 

Jameson

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,041
I logged on using the test account, and submitted a solution, with an attachment with no permissions issues. The PM containing my submission was sent successfully, and once I used my normal account to approve the submission, I now have access to the submission, and to it only, in the POTW Member Solutions sub-forum. I cannot edit it, or reply, but I can view it.

I then posted another topic directly in that sub-forum, and like the solution posted through the POTW form, it requires moderator approval.

I will now clean up the posts I just made. :D
Do you mean unlike the solution posted in the POTW form?

Thank you very much for checking this! :)
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
Do you mean unlike the solution posted in the POTW form?

Thank you very much for checking this! :)
The solution I posted (as test) via the POTW form also required moderator approval for me to view it, but not to post it. I saw none of the other solutions that are there either. Once I approved it using my normal account, I was then able to see it, and only it, as test.

It was the same for a thread posted directly there, I was able to submit it, but I received a message saying it would have to be approved by a moderator before I could view it. :D
 

Jameson

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,041
Ah, I see. So if I understand correctly, then:

1) Posting a submission to the POTW solution's forum requires no moderation and can be done as usual.
2) To view one's own thread though is not possible without moderator approval (I didn't actually know this feature existed so I'll login to the test account and see for myself).
3) Due to the same reasons as (2) one cannot view others' solutions but can see that someone has submitted a solution. Put another way, everyone can see the thread titles in the forum but not the content.

Correct?
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
Ah, I see. So if I understand correctly, then:

1) Posting a submission to the POTW solution's forum requires no moderation and can be done as usual.
2) To view one's own thread though is not possible without moderator approval (I didn't actually know this feature existed so I'll login to the test account and see for myself).
3) Due to the same reasons as (2) one cannot view others' solutions but can see that someone has submitted a solution. Put another way, everyone can see the thread titles in the forum but not the content.

Correct?
All are correct except 3). Members cannot see the other thread titles, only their own and only once they are moderator approved. At that point they can only view the post. The reply button is not present, however there is the reply with quote option, but they will be told they do not have sufficient permission to reply.
 
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Chris L T521

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Jan 26, 2012
995
Chris @ 6, Update 2: For the Third Permission, I assume you meant "Can Post Threads", right?
Ah yes, that's what I meant. When I figured all of this out around 3AM PST, my brain considered "create" and "post" to be the same thing. (Dull)

I have enabled those four options, and only those four, for registered users on up. As you did all the leg work of figuring out what permissions to do, why don't you go ahead and make the announcement? (Probably good to make it a must-read thread for everyone). And maybe in that thread, you can also spell out your new rule about solutions, and only solutions, belonging in that subforum.
I'll get on making a new announcement in a few minutes (just got back home and need to eat a late dinner... XD). Thanks a bunch for taking the time to make the permission changes! (Bow)