Solving the Curved Space Puzzle: e or c?

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of curved space and how it affects travel time to a destination. The scenario involves two people traveling along different paths, one following the "wooden" curved path and the other following the "string" path. The question is whether the person taking the shorter "string" route would arrive at the destination faster, and the answer is likely yes. However, the problem is complicated by the presence of a massive gravitational object and the twins paradox. The solution involves using the Schwarzschild metric to calculate the total elapsed proper times for the twins.
  • #1
Nickelodeon
181
1
If you think of a bow (as in bow and arrow) placed in space in the proximity of a massive object. This bow for arguments sake is 100 km from tip to tip.

Now replace the bow (wooden part and string) with what might be considered waypoints. The curved wooden part represents a straight line in curved space and the taught string would, I suppose, appear curved.

If one person sets off along the 'wooden' path and simultaneously someone else sets off along the 'string' path what would be the outcome

a) They would both arrive at the furthermost tip at the same time but the person who chose the string route was older?

b) The person who chose the 'wooden' path arrived first?

c) The person who chose the 'string' path arrived first?

d) They both arrived together and their biological clocks where still in sync?

e) The string route was shorter in distance but required more energy to traverse?

f) none of the above?



I'm not sure but I would think answer 'e' seems likely and probably 'c'
 
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  • #2
Nickelodeon said:
If you think of a bow (as in bow and arrow) placed in space in the proximity of a massive object. This bow for arguments sake is 100 km from tip to tip.

Now replace the bow (wooden part and string) with what might be considered waypoints. The curved wooden part represents a straight line in curved space and the taught string would, I suppose, appear curved.

If one person sets off along the 'wooden' path and simultaneously someone else sets off along the 'string' path what would be the outcome

a) They would both arrive at the furthermost tip at the same time but the person who chose the string route was older?

b) The person who chose the 'wooden' path arrived first?

c) The person who chose the 'string' path arrived first?

d) They both arrived together and their biological clocks where still in sync?

e) The string route was shorter in distance but required more energy to traverse?

f) none of the above?



I'm not sure but I would think answer 'e' seems likely and probably 'c'


The problem as stated is ill-posed. This is a variant of the twins paradox set in a gravitational field. Whether or not the twins arrive at destination at the same time is obviously a function of their respective speeds and their respective path lengths. If they do not arrive simultneously, the problem is tougher.
Let's assume that they twins arrive simultaneously, at time "T". Their total elapsed proper times is can be calculated from the Schwarzschild metric, via integration wrt the coordinate time. If the massive gravitational object is rotating, you will need to replace the Schwarzschild metric with the Kerr one. Here is a sketch of the solution:

[tex]d\tau^2=\alpha dt^2-\frac{1}{\alpha}dr^2-r^2 (d \phi)^2[/tex]

[tex]d\tau=dt \sqrt(\alpha -\frac{1}{\alpha}\frac{dr^2}{dt^2}-r^2 \frac{d \phi^2}{dt^2})[/tex]

Integrate the above wrt "t" with 0<t<T and you have your solution. You will need to note that for the twin traveling along the bow chord

[tex]d \phi=0[/tex].

For the twin traveling along the bow, you have

[tex]\phi=f(r)[/tex]

Nasty stuff :-) Things get even nastier since

[tex]\alpha=1-2m/r[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #3
starthaus said:
The problem as stated is ill-posed. This is a variant of the twins paradox set in a gravitational field. Whether or not the twins arrive at destination at the same time is obviously a function of their respective speeds and their respective path lengths. ...

What I was trying to get straight in my mind was whether in curved space it is quicker to reach a destination by not taking what would appear to be the straight line path, ie take a short cut. For instance, in an extreme situation where the curvature forces light to veer 90 degrees then could one assume that the shortest time to a destination would be by not following the more obvious route. (in my example above the more obvious route would be along the wooded bit of the bow) - probably not explaining myself very well.
 

Related to Solving the Curved Space Puzzle: e or c?

1. What is the significance of "e" and "c" in the curved space puzzle?

In the study of curved space, "e" represents the eccentricity of the curve, or how much it deviates from a circle, while "c" represents the curvature of the curve at a specific point.

2. How do "e" and "c" relate to each other in solving the curved space puzzle?

The relationship between "e" and "c" can be described by the equation e = 1/c, which means that as the eccentricity of the curve increases, the curvature at a specific point decreases.

3. What is the purpose of solving the curved space puzzle?

The curved space puzzle is important in understanding the geometry of the universe and how objects move through it. It also has practical applications in fields such as physics, astronomy, and engineering.

4. Is it possible to solve the curved space puzzle without advanced mathematical knowledge?

While a basic understanding of geometry and algebra is helpful, solving the curved space puzzle typically requires advanced mathematical concepts such as calculus and differential equations.

5. Are there real-life examples of curved space and the use of "e" and "c" in their study?

Yes, curved space can be observed in various phenomena such as the orbits of planets around the sun, the bending of light around massive objects, and the shape of the universe itself. The study of "e" and "c" is also essential in fields such as general relativity and cosmology.

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