Smoke Alarms and radiation from them

[Drakkith]

Now, does anyone seriously believe that these ionization smoke detectors can be manufactured by humans in facilities that are so perfect and pristine that there is absolutely no chance that this "extremely hazardous" americium could contaminate the plastic housing, any other part of the device, or even possibly get on packaging material?

I'm not concerned, for two reasons. First, because the different components of the smoke detectors are manufactured in entirely different plants and are then shipped to where they will be assembled. There is simply no way for contamination to occur to such an extent as you are worried about because the components are never in a situation where that could happen.

In addition, the americium is itself mixed with gold, which is then plated with layers of gold and silver, to form a small piece of 'foil' that has two 5mm discs cut out that are inserted into the detector casing or circuit board. Alloying the americium with gold virtually assures that a person won't get contaminated, as gold is an extremely malleable metal that is very difficult to fracture by accident. It doesn't shatter into many tiny shards or turn into some sort of powder that can easily be inhaled. It doesn't corrode either, so you don't have to worry about corrosion products containing americium. In a fire the alloy melts, but the temperature is usually too low to boil the alloy or either of its constituent elements, so there is little danger of inhalation. And, assuming that the fire was hot enough to boil the alloy, if you're so close to a boiling piece of this gold-americium foil from a smoke detector to inhale any of it then you're likely in the middle of a massive house fire and are already dead.

You'd have to make a conscious and determined effort to turn these 5mm discs of gold-americium foil into something that could actually harm you. Even eating it wouldn't kill you.

 

[anorlunda]

Perhaps smoke detectors should come with a warning label that says you shouldn't grind them up and smoke them?

My smoke detector has a sticker that says, "Do not ingest."

 

[hutchphd]

Of course we should not forget David Hahn, the "Nuclear Boy Scout"

On August 1, 2007, Hahn was charged with larceny in Clinton Township, Michigan for allegedly removing a number of smoke detectors from the halls of his apartment building

Sadly he passed at age 39 but it was alcohol and fentanyl not Americium.

 

[anorlunda]

In addition to the radiation, the ordinary chemistry strongly influences the hazards of different substances.

• Strontium 90 is attracted to bone structures.
• Plutonium sinters, creating tiny particles that can get lodged in the lungs.
• Tritium can become part of a water molecule. Our bodies are 70% water.
• Cobalt is brilliant blue. Children have been attracted to rubbing it on their skin.

The materials used in smoke detectors do not have unique biochemical hazards.

 

[meb68]

Im sure your laptop/desktop gives off more harmful things, than a smoke detector. Are you dying after typing? No. So relax a bit...

Bizarre reply

I'm not aware of any radioactive alpha-particle-emitters in or on my desktop computer that I could inhale and that would irradiate my bone tissue for years and decades.

 

[meb68]

In addition to the radiation, the ordinary chemistry strongly influences the hazards of different substances.

• Strontium 90 is attracted to bone structures.
• Plutonium sinters, creating tiny particles that can get lodged in the lungs.
• Tritium can become part of a water molecule. Our bodies are 70% water.
• Cobalt is brilliant blue. Children have been attracted to rubbing it on their skin.

The materials used in smoke detectors do not have unique biochemical hazards.

Yes, in the piece that I linked on Page 1, Lyman mentioned that "...impacts depend on the exact composition of the radioactive materials, their chemical forms, and the sizes of the particles that were inhaled..."

But he also said this about plutonium and americium -- "This incident is a reminder of the extremely hazardous nature of these materials, especially when they are inhaled, and illustrates why they require such stringent procedures when they are stored and processed."

Lyman probably knows more about radiation than anyone on here.

 

[meb68]

I'm not concerned, for two reasons. First, because the different components of the smoke detectors are manufactured in entirely different plants and are then shipped to where they will be assembled. There is simply no way for contamination to occur to such an extent as you are worried about because the components are never in a situation where that could happen.

In addition, the americium is itself mixed with gold, which is then plated with layers of gold and silver, to form a small piece of 'foil' that has two 5mm discs cut out that are inserted into the detector casing or circuit board. Alloying the americium with gold virtually assures that a person won't get contaminated, as gold is an extremely malleable metal that is very difficult to fracture by accident. It doesn't shatter into many tiny shards or turn into some sort of powder that can easily be inhaled. It doesn't corrode either, so you don't have to worry about corrosion products containing americium. In a fire the alloy melts, but the temperature is usually too low to boil the alloy or either of its constituent elements, so there is little danger of inhalation. And, assuming that the fire was hot enough to boil the alloy, if you're so close to a boiling piece of this gold-americium foil from a smoke detector to inhale any of it then you're likely in the middle of a massive house fire and are already dead.

You'd have to make a conscious and determined effort to turn these 5mm discs of gold-americium foil into something that could actually harm you. Even eating it wouldn't kill you.

Thanks for the detailed reply to the question, and I hear what you're saying.

But here's the issue when dealing with an "extremely hazardous" material like americium -- there is no room for error.

As Lyman showed, the Japanese worker who inhaled a microscopic ("about 150 micrograms") amount of plutonium will almost certainly develop a fatal cancer.

That said, you are confident that manufacturers of these "foils", or of complete ionization chambers can police themselves when it comes to detecting possible microscopic amounts of americium that could contaminate their products?

Do you know if these products are checked for contamination when they're received at the "assembly" plants?

Do NRC or independent inspectors ever get involved at any point in the process?

Heck, I can probably dig up a dozen incidents where radioactive materials were accidentally mishandled and/or released at national labs such as Los Alamos. And people working there likely have far more training and knowledge than Average Joes working at a smoke detector factory.

When microscopic amounts of these materials can be extremely dangerous and highly carcinogenic, I simply can't understand why we're even messing around with this stuff.

 

[russ_watters]

Heck, I can probably dig up a dozen incidents where radioactive materials were accidentally mishandled and/or released at national labs such as Los Alamos.

But, I assume, none for smoke detectors.

When microscopic amounts of these materials can be extremely dangerous and highly carcinogenic, I simply can't understand why we're even messing around with this stuff.

We've told you, but you won't listen. The things you are saying are quite simply meaningless. The first part of that sentence in particular. It sounds scary but means absolutely nothing.

The amount and means of exposure matters. This is true for anything that is potentially harmful. From sunlight to water.

 

[hutchphd]

But here's the issue when dealing with an "extremely hazardous" material like americium -- there is no room for error.

The radon in your basement will similarly kill you. If it decides to decay at an inopportune moment you will be similarly at risk. Without the numbers no decision can be rationally made. Inthe big scheme smoke detectors are a problem, but a very small one. Let us worry about the big ones.
This is called science.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Cyanide is dangerous.
Cyanide is a 3 syllable word beginning with C.
Therefore we need to avoid all three syllable words beginning with C.
Therefore prudent avoidance indicates that we shouldn't eat celery.

Simple logic.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Thread locked.