Exploring the Fear of Using "Spiritual

[olde drunk]

i just used the word 'spiritual' in another post. at that point, i realized that this word isn't used very much.

are we affraid that it has a religious implication?

do we avoid our own feelings of a spiritual existence for fear that it isn't 'enlightened'?

funny, using the word made me feel better, LOL.

peace,

 

[Zero]

I think it is more to do with the fact that the word is basically meaningless, because it means so many different things to so many people. If you have to explain exactly what it means to you every time you use it, why use that word at all?

 

[Mentat]

What does the word mean to you, olde drunk?

 

[phoenixthoth]

Originally posted by Zero
I think it is more to do with the fact that the word is basically meaningless, because it means so many different things to so many people. If you have to explain exactly what it means to you every time you use it, why use that word at all?

like the word consciousness?

 

[Kerrie]

many dictionaries, church's etc define spiritual as equal to religion...in my opinion, i feel this is incorrect...

one of my favorite quotes (don't take it too literal!):

religion is for those who fear going to hell
spirituality is for those who have been there

this quote (and i have no idea where it came from) i think helps define a little bit of a difference in the sense that religion is typically a fear based belief system, where spirituality is more of a self-made belief system...spirituality is about a person's own path down the road to self-discovery and self growth...modern religion completely lacks this, and is more of a social organization with a set of relgious rules that applies to everyone...

 

[olde drunk]

Originally posted by Mentat
What does the word mean to you, olde drunk?

to me it means "that part of me that ain't physical". nothing elaborate.

peace,

 

[olde drunk]

Kerrie

Originally posted by Kerrie
many dictionaries, church's etc define spiritual as equal to religion...in my opinion, i feel this is incorrect...

one of my favorite quotes (don't take it too literal!):

religion is for those who fear going to hell
spirituality is for those who have been there

this quote (and i have no idea where it came from) i think helps define a little bit of a difference in the sense that religion is typically a fear based belief system, where spirituality is more of a self-made belief system...spirituality is about a person's own path down the road to self-discovery and self growth...modern religion completely lacks this, and is more of a social organization with a set of relgious rules that applies to everyone...

kudos! you deserve to be a mentor!

i'm a simple,

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by olde drunk
to me it means "that part of me that ain't physical". nothing elaborate.

peace,

How do you know there is such a part of you?

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Mentat
How do you know there is such a part of you?

mentat, the drive and inspiration to be a better person, to be more aware, the drive to learn i think can be defined as basic spirituality...we are not automatic biological robots. the desire for some of us to achieve knowledge or great feats is motivated by our spirit, thus making us spiritual-and i think spiritual is often confused with religious. let's make a loud distinction, as i think many human beings are looking for a spiritual outlet and think religion is automatically the way to it---i certainly disagree with this.

how do we know there is such a part of us (spiritual)? well, this begs the question: does biology dictate our spirit, or does the spirit dictate our biology? i don't believe we have the *technology* to discect spirit, we have come a long way, but to claim we know all about human nature is quite the ignorant one...there is nothing magical or mystical about spirit, in essence, our spirituality is the part that makes us human-whether we are artists, philosophers, or scientists---all of these have one thing in common, and that is to better ourselves as a human being.

 

[Zero]

Hey! There's nothing wrong with being a biological robot, is there?!?

 

[Fliption]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
like the word consciousness?

And let's not forget the word "materialism".

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Zero
Hey! There's nothing wrong with being a biological robot, is there?!?

not at all...but i also don't see biological robots have a great ability to play guitars either...

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Kerrie
not at all...but i also don't see biological robots have a great ability to play guitars either...

That's unfair...I do pretty good considering I have short fingers and no formal training...

 

[olde drunk]

Originally posted by Mentat
How do you know there is such a part of you?

after 60+ years of looking for answers, i have mine. if you believe that this is all there is, you will become depressed and fall victim to other illnesses. no, there ain't no way to 'prove' this other than my observations thru life and how peoples beliefs influenced their life.

i am the supreme authority of what i believe and espouse. you might be able to quote a mile long list of recognized experts on any given subject. until they or you, show me, within my daily experience that your point of view or belief is better than mine, i'll retain my refined knowledge.

it is nice to fantasize about the matrix, or a computer generated world, but how does that concept help you enjoy a better tomorrow? for me, there is something beyond the physical, I've witnessed 'my proof'. experience is the only teacher. i wish you the same relevation.

peace,

 

[Fliption]

What's a biological robot?

 

[olde drunk]

shhh, don't let kerrie see this

any one know if kerrie is a mature female looking for fun??

i sure like the way s/he thinks. sorry I won't go gay.

peace,

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Fliption
What's a biological robot?

That's what Kerrie calls the materialistic version of a human being.

 

[Royce]

I've never met a sentient biological robot. Is that something like Santa Clause? Does it own a pink unicorn?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Royce
I've never met a sentient biological robot. Is that something like Santa Clause? Does it own a pink unicorn?

Very funny, Royce. I thought pink unicorns were YOUR department? You, and the rest of the non-materialist crowd, can be convinced to believe in anything that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, after all.

 

[raptor5618]

Originally posted by Kerrie
many dictionaries, church's etc define spiritual as equal to religion...in my opinion, i feel this is incorrect...

one of my favorite quotes (don't take it too literal!):

religion is for those who fear going to hell
spirituality is for those who have been there

this quote (and i have no idea where it came from) i think helps define a little bit of a difference in the sense that religion is typically a fear based belief system, where spirituality is more of a self-made belief system...spirituality is about a person's own path down the road to self-discovery and self growth...modern religion completely lacks this, and is more of a social organization with a set of relgious rules that applies to everyone...

I think this is one of the best quotes and explanations that I have read in a long time. The only thing I would change is at the end where you say "rules that applies to everyone" I think you should have said "rules that it demands are applied to everyone" I find that much of what is considered religeous is in fact pretty hateful. Believe as they believe or else.

For instance this gay marriage thing. I have been thinking and thinking and trying to come up with one reason why it could be a bad thing. If two people are commited to each other why shouldn't they have the same rights as others who just happen to be of the opposite sex. When I hear of the awful things that happened to one side of a gay couple when one passes away I think it is a total tragedy. Ok reliegion does not have to embrace it as a religeous tie but why are they against it as a civil matter. We allow business partnerships of people of the same sex and we allow marriages of atheists.

Ok I got off track but I did what to thank you for these entry as it states very clearly what I have been trying to understand for a while.

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Zero
That's unfair...I do pretty good considering I have short fingers and no formal training...

i am sure you do really well zero, especially considering you don't have formal training...but it's the desire and drive in you that plays and does well...and all i am saying is i think this is what spirituality is---nothing more, nothing less...

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Kerrie
i am sure you do really well zero, especially considering you don't have formal training...but it's the desire and drive in you that plays and does well...and all i am saying is i think this is what spirituality is---nothing more, nothing less...

And all I am saying is that drive is also biological.

 

[raptor5618]

There is most definately something spiritual about playing a guitar or any instrument for that matter. I picked up a guitar that was not played in many years because its owner died tragically at the age of 22. The guitar sat in its case for 10 or 15 years. I was dating his sister and said that it really should be played. I tuned it up with the old strings and it played and even sounded good. I bought new strings, tuned it and started playing.

What came out was not from me. It sounded so different than how I play and it was as if I was watching myself play. The hair stood up on my arms as I continued to play. What I played came from somewhere else that is for sure. The next time I played well that feeling was gone and it was back to me playing again. Not really proof of anything but sometimes when you play it is like you are taken over by such a feeling that what comes out seems as if it was created by another. Sure practice and ability allow this to happen but at times it only supplies part of the equation.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by raptor5618
There is most definately something spiritual about playing a guitar or any instrument for that matter. I picked up a guitar that was not played in many years because its owner died tragically at the age of 22. The guitar sat in its case for 10 or 15 years. I was dating his sister and said that it really should be played. I tuned it up with the old strings and it played and even sounded good. I bought new strings, tuned it and started playing.

What came out was not from me. It sounded so different than how I play and it was as if I was watching myself play. The hair stood up on my arms as I continued to play. What I played came from somewhere else that is for sure. The next time I played well that feeling was gone and it was back to me playing again. Not really proof of anything but sometimes when you play it is like you are taken over by such a feeling that what comes out seems as if it was created by another. Sure practice and ability allow this to happen but at times it only supplies part of the equation.

Of course it came from you...your mind has "hidden" levels, some of which only express themselves in art.

 

[phoenixthoth]

spirituality is about a person's own path down the road to self-discovery and self growth...modern religion completely lacks this, and is more of a social organization with a set of relgious rules that applies to everyone

what do you think about the following quotes from the new testament:

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”
--Matt 6:33
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
--Luke 17:21

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Zero
And all I am saying is that drive is also biological.

well, we could argue all day of whether the spiritual motivates the biological, or the biological motivates the spirituality...it's a matter of perspective truly as we don't fully know the answer, however humanity doesn't create art, music, ideas for purely biological reasons.

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
what do you think about the following quotes from the new testament:

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”
--Matt 6:33
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
--Luke 17:21

i really don't think much of the bible honestly...the language of it doesn't speak to me.

 

[olde drunk]

phonixthoh

i subscribe to the second and believe that number 1 springs from number 2.

all is within. our inner beliefs and feelings are projected outward to create our experience. this includes our understanding of a god.

peace,

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Kerrie
well, we could argue all day of whether the spiritual motivates the biological, or the biological motivates the spirituality...it's a matter of perspective truly as we don't fully know the answer, however humanity doesn't create art, music, ideas for purely biological reasons.

Why do you make these sort of declarations?

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Fliption

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
like the word consciousness?

And let's not forget the word "materialism".

God help us

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Kerrie
well, we could argue all day of whether the spiritual motivates the biological, or the biological motivates the spirituality...it's a matter of perspective truly as we don't fully know the answer, however humanity doesn't create art, music, ideas for purely biological reasons.

Wouldn't it be that much more interesting and miraculous if the "drive" that you speak of were a purely biological function of a purely biological being? Then you'd have to reconsider many of the more primary assumptions you've taken for granted (I don't mean "you" personally; I mean people in general, for the most part).

Have you seen my "Made of Meat" thread?

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Mentat
Wouldn't it be that much more interesting and miraculous if the "drive" that you speak of were a purely biological function of a purely biological being? Then you'd have to reconsider many of the more primary assumptions you've taken for granted (I don't mean "you" personally; I mean people in general, for the most part).

Have you seen my "Made of Meat" thread?

mentat, here is my perspective of it...if you have a television, that's great, now you have a tv that has the potential to provide you entertainment for hours...but without electricity, some kind of live force, it does you no good...just like a human vegetable on life support, without them being alive in the brain to make individual decisions they are just flesh being kept alive by machinery...

cutting life on Earth down to just the bilogical is fine, but without the other half of it-a spirit of some sort-life would not exist...your drive to learn, understand is part biological of course, however your degree of that drive is where the human spirit kicks in...as for human instinct, yes i totally believe that is biological...

we can say this is fact: science has not been able to scientize the human or animal spirit...does this mean it doesn't exist because we can't catagorize, label and discect it?

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Zero
Why do you make these sort of declarations?

wow zero, is that the best you could respond? it's obvious you disagree, so accept and let's move on.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Kerrie
wow zero, is that the best you could respond? it's obvious you disagree, so accept and let's move on.

Well, no, I really want an answer...why CAN'T things be biological? My need to eat is biological, why not my need to make music? Birds sing, animals dance as part of their mating, that is biological, isn't it?

 

[olde drunk]

ZERO

may i intrude?

ok, thanks. i would suggest that instinct is a part of an animals consciousness, whether human or otherwise. you cannot tell me that DNA or whatever imprints a young kangaroo to climb all the way up into the mother's pouch for a drink. possible? yes. probable? not much.

hunger, desire etc drive the young roo, but it is too immature to have a biological awareness of where to go.

logical, circumstantial information saves a ton of headaches when trying to wrap my brain around a complicated issue. mating, singing maybe biological, but the 'desire' to mate or sing is beyond physical.

peace,