Science is its own worst enemy

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In summary, this site is dedicated to teaching and discussing mainstream science as understood and practiced by the professional scientific community. Non-mainstream theories and ideas can be discussed on other internet sites, but PF has a specific focus and mission that does not include them. Additionally, new ideas and theories are constantly evolving and being accepted into the mainstream through the process of verification and scrutiny, which is why science continues to progress. The policy of not allowing non-mainstream theories on this forum is not a random decision, but rather a result of years of debate and experimentation. If you have a non-mainstream theory, you are encouraged to submit it to the proper channels and once it is published, it can be discussed on PF.
  • #1
Johnm1272
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed? This is what's wrong with science today. I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.
 
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  • #2
We teach mainstream science in order to better enable future scientists to develop new theories, equipped with the knowledge of what is already known. If you want to discuss non-mainstream theories (and "theories", which vastly outnumber the actual theories, which is the problem with them) there are dozens of sites that will let you do so. Post on one of them; no one here will stop you. We simply have a particular focus that does not include that.
 
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  • #3
The quick answer is in our mission statement:
Our mission is to provide a place for people (whether students, professional scientists, or others interested in science) to learn and discuss science as it is currently generally understood and practiced by the professional scientific community.
People who want that come here. Other internet sites do other things, and you are free to use them.

The pros and cons of our current policy have been discussed and debated for many years and through many experiments with alternatives; you'll find some of this history linked from the Info section and much more in earlier threads in this feedback section.
 
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  • #4
Johnm1272 said:
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed? This is what's wrong with science today. I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.
All the science in each single field of our forums is already so highly specialized and difficult, that we decided not to waste time on every nonsense that comes around on the internet.
phinds said:
Thinking outside the box can be a useful exercise but first you have to learn what's IN the box.

Formulating ideas based on a lack of knowledge as a way to learn turns out to be pretty much a waste of time.
There is few to add to this. What's already in the box is so manifold that a single lifetime isn't long enough to learn. To investigate the near surrounding of this named box is scientists' task, and therefore you need to know the neighborhood of the box. We find it far more exciting around this box as somewhere out in fantasia land. Btw., we have a science fiction forum ...
 
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  • #5
Johnm1272 said:
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed? This is what's wrong with science today.

This site is dedicated to science in a similar way that an algebra class is dedicated to teaching algebra and not geometry, history, or English. You wouldn't go into an algebra class and then get upset that the teacher won't let you discuss the differences between modern economic theories, would you? Of course not. That would be silly. The algebra class has the clear goal of teaching algebra, and anything else just gets in the way.

Similarly, PF's primary goal is to teach people about science as it is practiced and understood by the professional mainstream community. It is not to discuss non-mainstream theories. Those merely detract from our primary goal.

What's the problem? Why get upset if our site doesn't cater to you?

Johnm1272 said:
I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.

Don't join forums that don't cater to your interests?
 
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  • #6
Johnm1272 said:
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed?

You are jumping to the conclusion that scientists aren't open to questions and new theories. They are interested, but their platforms of choice are not Internet forums open to the public, but rather peer-reviewed journals. That way, only people who have proved that they know what is in-the-box, get listened to for out-of-the-box ideas.

PF makes no claims to be the ultimate science site. We have a mission and we stick to it. What's the matter with that?
 
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  • #7
Johnm1272 said:
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed? This is what's wrong with science today. I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.

The term "mainstream theories" needs to be clarified. It means that new ideas MUST be presented via the same scrutiny and methodology that is required by standard practice. It is why science evolves, expands, and encompasses new ideas all the time. This is a FACT. We know more now than before. So yes, there are always new ideas that enter mainstream science all the time. It means that it is part of the process of verification, scrutiny, and evaluation, just like any other scientific ideas are subjected to. There are a lot of "research front" discussion being discussed in this forum right this very minute (see Beyond the Standard Model forum). It means that new ideas are definition part of the "mainstream" categories. It is just that these must already been published in the standard journals first before it can be discussed.

The problem with new ideas that are presented on an open internet forum such as this is that it is all noise and no substance. We have tried it! You are not aware of the long history of this forum. This policy was not simply dreamed of, or came about out of an irrational decision.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...y-forum-like-we-need-a-computer-virus.765736/

If you have "non-mainstream theory", then submit it to the proper channel as any other scientist would. What's so special about you that you think you can bypass the tried-and-true process? Once it is published, then we can discuss it ad nauseum.

BTW, if you are this quick to make such an irrational conclusion that "science is its own worse enemy" based on what you see here in this forum in such a very short amount of time, then you are your own worse enemy as well.

Zz.
 
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  • #8
New [valid] science is not generated on internet forums. It has never happened and likely never will. As such, in our opinion, hosting discussion of against-the-mainstream ideas needlessly reduces the quality of the forum.

There are plenty of forums around that do host against the mainstream discussions. You are free to try them and judge for yourself if the trade-off/bet is worth it.
 
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  • #9
Johnm1272 said:
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed? This is what's wrong with science today. I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.
It looks like the OP @Johnm1272 has finally read the rules and decided that the PF is not a good match for what he is seeking, based on him not replying to this thread he created. Having seen his "Jello Universe" model, I have to say that you all are not missing much...

And as for very interesting PF discussions about mainstream science and expanding frontiers, this is a good example of a good PF thread, IMO: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/gravitational-waves-and-refraction-patterns.950763/
 
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  • #10
The way I see it is that PF is a forum dedicated to discussion of well known scientific theories.
Ones about which there really is not a lot of room for doubt.
There are hundreds of forums where flat earth, creationism, simulation universe, and Jello models are acceptable topics,
 
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  • #11
Johnm1272 said:
I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.

They laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at the Three Stooges.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
They laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at the Three Stooges.
And Copernicus had been smart enough to keep his insights secret, at least he didn't shout them out loud. So the OP might find comfort in Copernicus.
 
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  • #13
Johnm1272 said:
How can this be a site dedicated to science if questions that don't agrees with mainstream theories are not allowed? This is what's wrong with science today. I guess we didn't learn the real lessons to be taught by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo.

hmmm...

OmCheeto said:
But here is the new problem.
How far can I go with my nutty theories?
PF has a policy of "No personal theories".
But, we seem to be looking at a Trekkian/PF dichotomous problem, as "No man, has gone here, before".

Meh...
As always, I'll take the plunge, and state that it may be the crater to the lonely mountain's south, that is the engine generating the lift.
The "seed" of the mountain may be a long lost comet, possibly billions of years old. I've heard that comets are very light.

------------
Ok2di&b*

marcus said:
I wouldn't call that a personal theory so much as a reasonable conjecture within the framework of the common body of physics.

berkeman said:
Having seen his "Jello Universe" model, I have to say that you all are not missing much...

Guessing it was not a "reasonable conjecture within the framework of the common body of physics."?
-------
*OK2di&b = It is ok to delete this post, infract and ban me from the forum, as, I know I sometimes push the boundaries of forum rules.
 
  • #14
I was going to abandon even PF after cancelling all my other social media memberships. But I read this thread and I must support what PF is doing. Most of what is in social media forums is nothing but a total waste of time. Rubbish! But in my not so humble opinion PF is a beacon of light in the darkness of social media. I say kudos to PF for maintaining some standards. This planet of ours is cursed by so many people who are against science or simply ignorant of science. I think GB and colleagues deserve a lot of credit for maintaining this forum.
 
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  • #15
Science is not about thinking whatever you want, and then trying to get absurd theories accepted by the public. There is a method in science which leads us to the truth. In a world of B.S. and with all the historical rubbish we are saddled with, science is the only light we have. Long live science!
 
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Related to Science is its own worst enemy

What does it mean when someone says "Science is its own worst enemy"?

When someone says "Science is its own worst enemy," they are referring to the idea that the advancements and discoveries made through scientific research can also have negative consequences. This could include unintended consequences, misuse of technology, or ethical concerns.

How does science contribute to its own downfall?

Science can contribute to its own downfall in a number of ways. One example is through the development of new technologies that may have unintended consequences or be used for harmful purposes. Additionally, scientific research can sometimes be influenced by biases or funding sources, leading to inaccurate or misleading results.

What are some examples of science being its own worst enemy?

One example of science being its own worst enemy is the development of nuclear weapons. While nuclear technology has many beneficial uses, the creation of nuclear weapons has had devastating consequences. Another example is the use of pesticides in agriculture, which has led to environmental damage and health concerns.

Can science overcome its own negative impact?

Yes, science has the potential to overcome its own negative impact. As advancements are made, scientists and researchers can also work to address and mitigate any potential negative consequences. This can include developing ethical guidelines, conducting further research on potential risks, and collaborating with other fields to address issues.

How can we prevent science from becoming its own worst enemy in the future?

Preventing science from becoming its own worst enemy requires a proactive and ethical approach. This can include promoting transparency and accountability in scientific research, addressing potential biases and conflicts of interest, and promoting responsible use of technology. It also involves considering the potential consequences of scientific advancements before moving forward with them.

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