Proving Hamiltonian Invariance with Goldstein Problems

In summary, the conversation discusses the invariance of Lagrange and Hamilton equations of motion under a gauge transformation of the Lagrangian. The attempt at a solution involves using the definition of canonical momentum and Hamiltonian to show that the motion is not affected by the transformation. However, the second Hamilton equation fails to hold, causing confusion. The conversation concludes by questioning the invariance of the canonical momentum and the effect on the motion.
  • #1
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Homework Statement


I'm solving Goldstein's problems. I have proved by direct substitution that Lagrange equations of motion are not effected by gauge transformation of the Lagrangian:

[tex]L' = L + \frac{dF(q_i,t)}{dt}[/tex]

Now I'm trying to prove that Hamilton equations of motion are not affected by this type of transformation.

Homework Equations


Hamiltonian:

[tex]H = \dot{q}_i p_i - L[/tex]


Total time derivative:

[tex]\frac{dF(q_i,t)}{dt} = \frac{\partial F}{\partial q_i} \dot{q_i} + \frac{\partial F}{\partial t}[/tex]

Canonical momentum:

[tex]p_i = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}_i}[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution



Using the definition of canonical momentum we immediately see that the new canonical momentum is

[tex]p_i' = \frac{\partial L'}{\partial \dot{q}_i} = p_i + \frac{\partial F}{\partial q_i}[/tex]

But wait a moment! If the canonical momentum is altered, isn't the motion going to be effected? I'm missing something here... Anyway, we go on further to show that the new Hamiltonian is

[tex]H' = \dot{q}_i p_i' - L' = H - \frac{\partial F(q_i, t)}{\partial t}[/tex]

It satisfies one of Hamilton's equations of motion

[tex]\dot{q}_i' = \frac{\partial H}{\partial p_i} = \dot{q}_i[/tex]

but fails for the second one,

[tex]\dot{p}_i' = -\frac{\partial H}{\partial q_i} = \dot{p}_i + \frac{\partial^2 F}{\partial q_i \partial t}[/tex]

Now I'm a little lost... I don't know how to prove the invariance, and the most disturbing part is that the canonical momentum is clearly not invariant.
 
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  • #2
But wait a moment! If the canonical momentum is altered, isn't the motion going to be effected? I'm missing something here...

Well, the Euler-Lagrange equation is what gives you the equation of motion, and that is invariant on adding the total derivative. So, the motion shouldn't be affected, right?

Also, for the last couple of steps, shouldn't you find

[tex] \frac{\partial H}{\partial {p_i'}}[/tex]

as the canonical momentum is defined by the new lagrangian?
 
Last edited:

Related to Proving Hamiltonian Invariance with Goldstein Problems

1. What is the concept of Hamiltonian invariance?

The concept of Hamiltonian invariance refers to the principle that the Hamiltonian of a system remains constant over time, regardless of any changes in the system's coordinates or momenta. In other words, the Hamiltonian is invariant under the transformation of the system's coordinates and momenta.

2. How is Hamiltonian invariance related to Goldstein problems?

Goldstein problems are mathematical problems that involve finding solutions to systems of differential equations, often in the context of classical mechanics. These problems are often used to demonstrate the concept of Hamiltonian invariance, as the solutions to these problems must satisfy the Hamiltonian invariance principle.

3. How can Hamiltonian invariance be proved with Goldstein problems?

To prove Hamiltonian invariance with Goldstein problems, one must show that the solutions to the system of differential equations satisfy the Hamiltonian invariance principle. This can be done through mathematical calculations and manipulations of the equations, demonstrating that the Hamiltonian remains constant over time.

4. What are some real-world applications of Hamiltonian invariance?

Hamiltonian invariance has many practical applications in physics and engineering, particularly in the fields of classical mechanics and dynamical systems. For example, it is used in the study of celestial mechanics, where the Hamiltonian invariance principle helps to predict the motion of planets and other celestial bodies. It is also used in the design and analysis of control systems in engineering, where the Hamiltonian is used to represent the energy of a system.

5. Are there any limitations to the concept of Hamiltonian invariance?

While Hamiltonian invariance is a powerful and widely applicable principle in physics, it does have some limitations. For example, it does not take into account the effects of external forces or non-conservative forces on a system, which can lead to deviations from the principle. Additionally, it is based on classical mechanics and may not hold true in the realm of quantum mechanics.

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