Proper movement, reference frames and gravitational waves

In summary, the conversation discusses the movement of electrons in atoms and their potential to radiate energy through gravitational waves. It also touches on the concept of reference frames and how space-time can be considered an objective reference frame. The role of quantum mechanics in understanding the behavior of electrons and their orbitals is also mentioned. Overall, the conversation delves into the complexities of subatomic particles and their interactions within the universe.
  • #1
tim9000
867
17
Hi,
So apparently electrons don't orbit the nucleus of atoms so I'm assuming the lack of movement means that no energy from the atom is radiated away from an atom due to minuscule gravitational waves, over the life of the universe.
But gravitational waves have got me thinking about reference frames, can anything ever be stationary to the reference of space-time? I learned in HS physics class that there is no such thing as an objective reference frame, but wouldn't space-time itself be an objective reference frame?
Because it's my understanding that movement of large celestial bodies creates gravitational waves, but can anything in the universe ever not move? And thus not create gravitational wave?
Or is it only radial movement (orbits) that radiate gravitational energy?
So otherwise can an atom exist in the universe not radiate energy in the form of minuscule orders of magnitude gravitational waves, and what happens to an atom trillions and trillions of years from now after it's radiated all it's 'energy' away?
 
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  • #2
tim9000 said:
So apparently electrons don't orbit the nucleus of atoms so I'm assuming the lack of movement means that no energy from the atom is radiated away from an atom due to minuscule gravitational waves, over the life of the universe.

no, yes. see electron ORBITALS...the most accurate model is one where electrons are standing probability waves not billiard ball type objects in simple orbits. In other words, quantum mechanics not classical physics is the best model. At subatomic scales, things interact is discrete steps, usually multiples of Planck's constant,h, not continuous energies.

tim9000 said:
I learned in HS physics class that there is no such thing as an objective reference frame, but wouldn't space-time itself be an objective reference frame?

yes, no. I think you mean INERTIAL frame and, yes, one is as good as another. Yours is different from mine right now, but so slow it hardly matters. Near light speed however, there are major differences described by special relativity, length contraction and time dilation.

What is 'objective', that is invariant in the language of relativity, is the space time interval. Space contracts and time dilates and despite our everyday experience are NOT constant. Only the speed of light is constant. Thiese behaviors what Einstein encoded in his theory of Special Relativity.

The first few sections here are verbal not mathematical decriptions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

tim9000 said:
Or is it only radial movement (orbits) that radiate gravitational energy?

In general, orbital motion, say circular or elliptical, will radiate gravitational waves. [PS: 'radial movement' is perpendicular to circular orbital movement.] Circular orbits are a special case of acceleration in which direction, but not velocity, changes. The BOHR model has 'rules' for which electron orbits don't radiate, but I'm pretty sure there is no good rationale. When electrons jump from one orbital to another, they do radiate. Quantum mechanics likely provides detailed insights about orbitals and radiating but I don't know about the details. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_model for some 'rules and regulations' regarding electrons bound to nuclei; these Bohr rulesare based on observations, measurements, not first princples.
 

Related to Proper movement, reference frames and gravitational waves

1. What is the importance of proper movement in scientific research?

Proper movement refers to the accurate and precise measurement of an object's position and motion. It is crucial in scientific research as it allows us to understand and predict the behavior of objects in various scenarios, such as in reference frames and gravitational waves.

2. How do reference frames affect our understanding of motion?

Reference frames are used to describe the motion of objects relative to a fixed point or observer. They are important because they provide a frame of reference for measuring an object's motion and can change our perception of an object's movement depending on the chosen frame.

3. What are gravitational waves and how are they related to proper movement?

Gravitational waves are ripples in the fabric of space-time caused by the acceleration of massive objects, such as stars or black holes. Proper movement is essential in detecting and studying gravitational waves as it allows us to accurately measure the distance and motion of these objects.

4. How do scientists measure proper movement?

Scientists use various instruments and techniques to measure proper movement, such as telescopes, cameras, and accelerometers. These tools allow us to track an object's position and motion over time, providing valuable data for scientific research.

5. What are the practical applications of understanding proper movement and gravitational waves?

Understanding proper movement and gravitational waves has numerous practical applications, including improving our understanding of the universe, aiding in the development of new technologies, and potentially detecting and studying distant objects and phenomena in space.

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