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decibel
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what exactly is a photographic memory and is it possible for someone to devolp it??
I am not sure about that it is genetically determined.. mainly developmental. The trick is to stimulate your brain a lot, there is a saying: neurons that fire together wire together. At one point we use only part of our brain, it would be good to know how to increase communication between different parts of the brain.. I think practice will facilitate that.Originally posted by Zantra
improve yes. Improve to THAT degree, doubtful. Granted neuroscience is still in a budding stage, But we are talking about the limits of gentics here. It's been shown through studies that people of genius generally are genetically predisposed. That's to say that their synapses generally fire at a faster rate and are closer together, or arranged differently than the average persons. Of course don't ask me for a link, but I know I've heard that fairly recently.
Originally posted by Zantra
Studies done on people with extraordinary memory capabilities showed that they frequently use pneumonic devices for remembering large amounts of information. One description was a hallway this person created in his mind, and he would just imagine himself walking down that hall, and see items associated with things he'd memorized, and thus have complete recall.
where's biology forums- I know she'd have some input on this.
I'd agree with this...Originally posted by Monique
I am not sure about that it is genetically determined.. mainly developmental. The trick is to stimulate your brain a lot, there is a saying: neurons that fire together wire together. At one point we use only part of our brain, it would be good to know how to increase communication between different parts of the brain.. I think practice will facilitate that.
The astonishing memories of some autistic people, and people with Asperger's syndrome might be used to argue that when memory is TOO good, it's a sign of underlying pathology.Originally posted by Monique
I am not sure about that it is genetically determined.. mainly developmental.
Neurons are actually supposed to fire in a give-and-take way. When they fire together the result is a seizure.The trick is to stimulate your brain a lot, there is a saying: neurons that fire together wire together.
There is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that the more of our brain we are using at once, the more likely it is to burn out and crash. They've done P.E.T. scans on people in manic states and found their brains were using up sugar like crazy (pun intended). This kind of "overdrive" can only go on so long and the person will crash into a depression.At one point we use only part of our brain, it would be good to know how to increase communication between different parts of the brain.. I think practice will facilitate that.
You misunderstand. It is about creating memory, how does that work? By creating routes for electrical signalling. How are those routes created? By connecting neurons. Our brain has an excess of neurons. The way connections are made is by wiring the neurons that fire together and eliminating the neurons that do not fire together. Maybe my example only goes for the development of vision? Since that is where I read the statement.Neurons are actually supposed to fire in a give-and-take way. When they fire together the result is a seizure.
Ah, yes, but I didn't say "a very good memory". I said when a memory is TOO good. In my high school there was a guy who remembered what every sign said at every intersection he had ever stopped at while riding in a car.Originally posted by Monique
The subgroup of autistic patients with an extreme mental capability are savants. I wouldn't say that a very good memory is a sign of underlying pathology, not at all.
Yes, I am trying to prod you into clarifying your terminlogy. "Routes" aren't created by neurons firing "together", but rather by neurons firing in series.You misunderstand. It is about creating memory, how does that work? By creating routes for electrical signalling. How are those routes created? By connecting neurons. Our brain has an excess of neurons. The way connections are made is by wiring the neurons that fire together and eliminating the neurons that do not fire together.
As far as I know, what you're talking about happens with all brain functions. My point is that neurons firing in series, one fires, which triggers the next one to fire, can amount to a line of communication betwee one part of the brain and another. When they fire "together", at the same time, you get a seizure.Maybe my example only goes for the development of vision? Since that is where I read the statement.
It isn't just you, or your wording. Everyone repeats that saying about how we only use 20% of our brainpower, and the implication is that most people are lazy. Brainpower actually result from using less of your brain, but more effectively.Rather about utilizing different parts of the brain on intent. Maybe my wording wasn't so good...
You are right, generally the firing together would be serial, but in the eye example it is definitely analogous! If that can be expressed in such a way..Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Yes, I am trying to prod you into clarifying your terminlogy. "Routes" aren't created by neurons firing "together", but rather by neurons firing in series.
No. Somehow you have missed the point of what I'm saying about brainpower being a matter of quality and not quantity. Using 100% of your brain, all at the same time, would be a tonic-clonic seizure.Originally posted by decibel
now that makes me wonder what we could do if we could use 100% of our brain...telekenisis comes to mind lol?
If I am right, then firing together would not be serial, but synchronous.Originally posted by Monique
You are right, generally the firing together would be serial..."
but in the eye example it {what?}is definitely analogous!{to what?} If that can be expressed in such a way..
If you could get rid of the bad effects, then you would live in something like a manic state where you would be super-intelligent, efficient, brimming with energy, no need for sleep.Originally posted by decibel
yeah true but i mean like imagin if we could actually use it without any side effects...or seizures lol
You read my eye story?but in the eye example it {what?}is definitely analogous!{to what?} If that can be expressed in such a way..
Here the fire together actually means neurons in the same proximity (at the same time), where the layout of neurons in the eye needs to be replicated to the layout of the same neurons in the visualization part of the brain.Let me just explain the 'fire together wire together' concept a little further, I don't mean to confuse people.
Where I got the concept is in the development of vision. At the back of the eye are receptors which pick up a signal, a photon, all these receptors activate neurons. The neurons bundle together and go through the blind spot to the brain. In the brain they reorganize themselves on an area of the brain which will translate the signal to an image in the mind. But how do the bundled neurons reorganize themselves in the brain to make sense??
Here is where the fire together wire together concept comes in.
Experiments have been done in infants, where a single eye was covered with a cloth in the first few years of life. The neurons in the brain for this eye will die! The neurons in the other eye, receiving visual input will actually develop normally.
If two neurons don't fire together, it means the are not next to each other in the eye, the connection is lost. If two neurons DO fire together, it is very likely that they are located in the same proximity on the eye, a connection is reinforced.
I hope that explains.
Any catch phrase should not be taken too literally, but in my opinion it describes the situation pretty well..Synapse modification and its dependence on electrical activity.
Experiments in several systems indicate that synapses are strengthened or weakened by electrical activity according to the rule shown in the diagram. The underlying principle appears to be that each excitation of a target cell tends to weaken any synapse where the presynaptic axon terminal has just been quiet but to strengthen any synapse where the presynaptic axon terminal has just been active. As a result, "neurons that fire together, wire together." A synapse that is repeatedly weakened and rarely strenghened is eventually eliminated altogether.
OK. Here is one place you misunderstood me. I did not say wiring only happens in a give and take way. I said wiring happens when firing happens in series. A signal gets from one place in the cortex to another neuron by neuron. Neuron #1 fires. It gives off neuro transmitters that stimulate neuron #2 to fire. No.2 fires. It gives off neuro transmitters that stimulate neuron #3 to fire. On so on, until the signal gets to some other part of the brain that can use it as information. This is what I mean when I say they fire in series. One fires after another. The give and take is a different thing that I will explain.Originally posted by Monique
you were commenting on the fire together wire together concept, that the wiring only happens when neurons fire in a give and take way.
So are you talking about neurons that are simply in close physical proximity without being at all connected?What I pointed out is that there is also communication between neurons not firing in a give-take way, where neurons which fire NEXT to each other at the SAME TIME will wire more strongly to the part of the brain which perceives vision, rather than two neurons next to each other than don't fire at the exact same point in time.
I don't know how neurons develop. I just know about how they communicate with each other once they are developed.I am not sure if this is a special vision-development mechanism or actually occurs generally with neurons. I believe this is a general occurance, since neurons develop together in bundles right? They are not independent.
This is where the give and take plays a part. Any given neuron is connected to several others. When neuron A fires it could cause anyone of the several it connects to to fire. It makes a choice. It sends neuro transmitters to all of them. Most of these neuro transmitters carry the message "Don't Fire!" Only one carries the message to "Fire and pass it on!" In this way the signal finds a path from among billions of billions of choices. At any given time there are billions and billions of signals going all over the place in the brain. It requently happens that two or more signals want to use part of the same path at the same time. They don't. They are courteous. One goes, then the other goes. Give and take. (Maybe not the most accurate term but let's use it for now to distinguish from "in series"). Damaged neurons screw up the signals they receive and screw up the signals they send out. This results in them telling all the neurons down the line to let the signals through all together, at the same time. They do. These signals tell more neurons to fire at the same time. They do. The number of neurons all firing at the same time increases exponentially. The goal of the original signal is completely derailed and all kinds of neurons are firing, all at the same time, completely without purpose. This hypersynchronous firing can stay limited to one ciruit, or it can spread to others. In the worst case scenario it spreads throughout the whole brain. (This is, in fact, the only known instance of a person using 100% of their brain - it's not pretty). The frequency at which all the neurons are firing can actually be picked up with electrodes in many cases (if the activity gets close enough to the surface). The amplitude of seizure activity is many times the amplitude of normal brain waves.A seizure is the uncontrolled firing of the neurons, overactivity, which in turn overactivates other neurons it shouldn't (maybe leaking effect?) thus creating a run-away effect.
Give and take/ serial, different words, same concept. Wiring happens when a signal is transferred from one neuron to the other, one will give the other take = serial, right?Originally posted by zoobyshoe
OK. Here is one place you misunderstood me. I did not say wiring only happens in a give and take way. I said wiring happens when firing happens in series. A signal gets from one place in the cortex to another neuron by neuron. Neuron #1 fires. It gives off neuro transmitters that stimulate neuron #2 to fire. No.2 fires. It gives off neuro transmitters that stimulate neuron #3 to fire. On so on, until the signal gets to some other part of the brain that can use it as information. This is what I mean when I say they fire in series. One fires after another. The give and take is a different thing that I will explain.
Yes, you must be aware that neurons in the brain are not distributed randomly and that they actually follow paths together?So are you talking about neurons that are simply in close physical proximity without being at all connected?
Well, the brain remodels throughout life right? We don't gain new neurons, but new connections can still be made.I don't know how neurons develop. I just know about how they communicate with each other once they are developed.
This really doesn't work for me. Neurons being courteous? Yes, because they need to depolarize before they can relay another signal. Seizures are caused by neurons which don't reset themselves right? I can definitely understand where you are coming from and I think we are on the same wavelength, but the way you distinguish between serial and give/take is really a fine line..It frequently happens that two or more signals want to use part of the same path at the same time. They don't. They are courteous. One goes, then the other goes. Give and take. (Maybe not the most accurate term but let's use it for now to distinguish from "in series"). Damaged neurons screw up the signals they receive and screw up the signals they send out.
As far as I can tell we seem to understand the neurons to be working in the same way.I can definitely understand where you are coming from and I think we are on the same wavelength..."
No, this is not my wording.Originally posted by Monique
OK: in your wordings: neurons that fire in a give and take way won't result in a tighter wiring and neurons that fire in series WILL result in a tighter wiring? ((that is the issue))
That's OK then. Don't strain yourself.I'm really sorry, but first I can't make the distinction firing together one after another and firing in series, it means the exact same thing to me, I don't quite understand the point of the seizure example, it is just an example of uncontrolled relaying of the signal.