Modafinil as the closest thing to the limitless drug

[emmabods]

Is it true that modafinil is the closest thing to nzt-48 from limitless?

 

[DiracPool]

Is it true that modafinil is the closest thing to nzt-48 from limitless?

I don't know. You got some? I'll give it a try

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil

"Modafinil seems to inhibit the reuptake action of the dopamine transporter, thus leading to an increase in extracellular and thus synaptic concentrations of dopamine"

It looks like some form of a dopamine agonist. Basically, all of the antidepressants and abused recreational drugs work on the same system, the monoamines or mesolimbic pathways:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_neurotransmitter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopaminergic_pathways

Much of the history of (especially analgesic) pharmacokinetcs has been steeped with the myth that all you need to do is tweak an amine in the right way and you'll create a "medication" or a designer drug that is not addictive. This fantasy goes back to the time of Sigmund Freud. They said it about methadone, about percodan, about dexedrine, about vicodin, and more recently about oxycontin. Unfortunately there's no free lunch when it comes to a monoamine agonist, no matter how you tweak it. Just to be sure, though, let me try a couple of those modafinil pills so I'm 100% on this

Edit: Since I'm predicting Pythagorean is going to call me out for saying that opiates are a direct monoamine agonist when they actually act secondarily on the dopamine pathways, I've provided this disclaimer and fun animation:

http://neurogenesis.com/neuroscience/how-opiates-affects-the-brain/

 

[emmabods]

I don't know. You got some? I'll give it a try

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil

"Modafinil seems to inhibit the reuptake action of the dopamine transporter, thus leading to an increase in extracellular and thus synaptic concentrations of dopamine"

It looks like some form of a dopamine agonist. Basically, all of the antidepressants and abused recreational drugs work on the same system, the monoamines or mesolimbic pathways:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_neurotransmitter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopaminergic_pathways

Much of the history of (especially analgesic) pharmacokinetcs has been steeped with the myth that all you need to do is tweak an amine in the right way and you'll create a "medication" or a designer drug that is not addictive. This fantasy goes back to the time of Sigmund Freud. They said it about methadone, about percodan, about dexedrine, about vicodin, and more recently about oxycontin. Unfortunately there's no free lunch when it comes to a monoamine agonist, no matter how you tweak it. Just to be sure, though, let me try a couple of those modafinil pills so I'm 100% on this

Edit: Since I'm predicting Pythagorean is going to call me out for saying that opiates are a direct monoamine agonist when they actually act secondarily on the dopamine pathways, I've provided this disclaimer and fun animation:

http://neurogenesis.com/neuroscience/how-opiates-affects-the-brain/

I wish i could get some of it too. It's actually a prescription drug and it's very hard to come by. It was intended for narcoleptics but over the years, more and more people have come to appreciate it's ''mind enhancing effects''. First the military then students.

 

[Pythagorean]

It doesn't sound all that different from aderall in terms of effect and negative side effects:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/mortarboard/2013/may/31/is-modafinil-safe-in-long-term

Anecdote: the people I knew in undergrad that did aderall (both for clinical reasons and as a study aid - I.e. they abused their own prescriptions) had these side effects, particularly disrupted sleep architecture, but they also tended to lose site of project goals getting too caught up on minute details.

 

[DiracPool]

I wish i could get some of it too. It's actually a prescription drug and it's very hard to come by. It was intended for narcoleptics but over the years, more and more people have come to appreciate it's ''mind enhancing effects''. First the military then students.

If I were 20 years younger, in my 20's, I may have sought this out. I was pretty proficient at acquiring exotic psychoactive chemicals back then. So it's pretty much just coffee and vodka these days. Pot is even legal in my state but I don't smoke it. I drive right by a pot shop everyday with some guy flipping a sign around like the Little Ceasers pizza guys trying to drum up business on my way to my friend's barista stand. It's kind of surreal. I used to be big stoner in the 80's and 90's.

I was looking at this list of recreational drugs since you brought up the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreational_drug_use

The only two on that list that intrigue me is ketamine and DMT. As I said, I haven't taken any drugs other than alcohol and caffeine in about 7 years or so (and I certainly DON'T recommend it kids). But I used to party a bit in my younger years. However, in my opinion, the risk is too great to get back into that world, and the reward is not worth it. It is unsustainable. And the psychedelics are too unpredictable. So I'm happy where I am.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Cognitive enhancement through pharmaceutical drugs is an idea that's been discussed quite a bit, and is probably already going on to some extent:

Welcome to the brave new world of "cognitive enhancement," a term that typically refers to the use of attention- or memory-boosting prescription drugs, such as Adderall, Ritalin and modafinil (Provigil), along with other performance-raising medications, to improve productivity. College kids have been doing it for years. About 7% of U.S. university students report having taken stimulants "nonmedically" at least once, according to a 2005 study of nearly 11,000 students. On some campuses — primarily private, élite schools — a full quarter of students admit to nonmedical drug use in the past year, mainly in an attempt to improve grades.

Smart drugs are used widely off-campus as well: fighter pilots take stimulants to enhance alertness and cognition on critical missions; in the civilian world, executives take beta-blockers to calm nerves, while some time-pressed writers use wakefulness drugs, like modafinil, to meet deadlines. It's become commonplace enough that a group of seven leading bioethicists and neuroscientists published an http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/456702a.html in the science journal Nature last month advocating the use of performance-boosting drugs. "Cognitive enhancement has much to offer individuals and society," the authors wrote, "and a proper societal response will involve making enhancements available while managing their risks."

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869435,00.html

Here's a link to the editorial in Nature that the Time piece refers to: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7223/full/456702a.html

 

[DiracPool]

Cognitive enhancement through pharmaceutical drugs is an idea that's been discussed quite a bit

Wow, that's a great piece Ygggdrasil. Thanks for that. I think I remember reading something like that several years ago but didn't really analyze it. As I said in an earlier post, nobody wanted a short cut to nirvana through pharmaceuticals more than I did in my 20's. I didn't find it, and no one I knew found it either. I don't think anyone's going to find it. Not to get to funky on you guys, but the eastern religions with their emphasis on discipline, balance, meditation, and good diet is really where it's at. I know John Lennon didn't like the Maharashi, but he was a kid too at the time.

I restate my earlier conviction that there is no free lunch when it come to psychoactive "enhancers." Except coffee. There was a book I read back in the 80's, jeez, I'd have to dig it up. I'll look for it. But basically this guy took you on a tour of pharmicodynamics and organic chemistry as it applies to the brain and his conclusion was that coffee was the only real miracle drug we were ever going to find. I'll try to find it.. That book, actually was the "catalyst" (pun intended) for a brief stint in the late 80's to master organic chemistry.

 

[TheAmandanator]

I am a user, of both brand names, and have Narcolepsy. While it helps immensely with daytime sleepiness, it does not make me more "aware" or able to do things I wouldn't normally do. My cognitive function is increased because I am less groggy (EDS with narcolepsy has been equated with being "sleep drunk" or having no sleep for upwards of 4 to 5 days). Is it a wonder drug? Yes, for me it is. Is it something like the Limitless drug? No, not by a long shot.

 

[emmabods]

I am a user, of both brand names, and have Narcolepsy. While it helps immensely with daytime sleepiness, it does not make me more "aware" or able to do things I wouldn't normally do. My cognitive function is increased because I am less groggy (EDS with narcolepsy has been equated with being "sleep drunk" or having no sleep for upwards of 4 to 5 days). Is it a wonder drug? Yes, for me it is. Is it something like the Limitless drug? No, not by a long shot.
Wow. Thanks guys. Your replies have really all being educative. The thing is this, one of the greatest challenge some students face is the inability to focus completely on the task at hand, such as reading a book. And since modafinil helps improve focus and thus productivity by stimulating wakefulness. I as one of such students will really love to experiment with it. Especially considering the loads of reading materials i have to cover in the limited time before my exams

 

[Guco]

Any drug that resembles the drug from Limitless to the user is more likely affecting confidence rather than actually increasing cognitive ability. I think a true cognitive enhancer would increase mental flexibility (in other words, the ability to change your mental state to suit the task at hand), but drugs tend to do the exact opposite of that.

I have a subscription for a mild stimulant (methylphenidate) and I don't think it helps me study more effectively. Intrinsic motivation is what makes the difference.

If you want to study better I would recommend using a spaced repetition computer program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition).

 

[TheAmandanator]

I am a user, of both brand names, and have Narcolepsy. While it helps immensely with daytime sleepiness, it does not make me more "aware" or able to do things I wouldn't normally do. My cognitive function is increased because I am less groggy (EDS with narcolepsy has been equated with being "sleep drunk" or having no sleep for upwards of 4 to 5 days). Is it a wonder drug? Yes, for me it is. Is it something like the Limitless drug? No, not by a long shot.
Wow. Thanks guys. Your replies have really all being educative. The thing is this, one of the greatest challenge some students face is the inability to focus completely on the task at hand, such as reading a book. And since modafinil helps improve focus and thus productivity by stimulating wakefulness. I as one of such students will really love to experiment with it. Especially considering the loads of reading materials i have to cover in the limited time before my exams

---I've known people who've taken it for that purpose, and they reported no real difference in state of mind.