Light beams, from the present to the time of the big bang

In summary, the discussion was about the expansion of the universe and whether light beams converge to a single point in the remote past. It was clarified that there was no "single point" and the universe may have been infinite in extent. The distance between galaxies was smaller in the past, but this does not imply that light beams were closer. Expansion does not cause two parallel photons to separate, as it is all just a matter of geometry and not affected by mass.
  • #1
eugene pletcher
6
0
Regarding expansion, from the present to the past: Do light beams (generally) converge to a single point, in the remote past, as geometry and matter was also condensed to a single point, prior to the big bang?
Thank you.
 
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  • #2
eugene pletcher said:
Regarding expansion, from the present to the past: Do light beams (generally) converge to a single point, in the remote past, as geometry and matter was also condensed to a single point, prior to the big bang?
Thank you.
No, there was no "single point". This is a pop-science misconception that has no bearing on reality as far as we know. The "singularity" does not mean "point" it means "the place where our math model gives un-physical results and we don't know what was really going on."
The beginning of the universe as we understand it was not a point and may in fact have been infinite in extent.

By the way, don't feel bad that you got sucked in by that mis-information. There are many dozens, probably hundreds, of posts here with people asking questions based on exactly that misunderstanding.
 
  • #3
Well, yes. Sort of. The CMBR is the light from the earliest time we can see it. Inasmuch as ideal radiation might point in a preferred direction one might argue they would all actually converge from the edge of the observable universe toward the observer. Since the Big Bang happened everywhere, the radiation will come from the edge of everywhere.
 
  • #4
phinds said:
No, there was no "single point". This is a pop-science misconception that has no bearing on reality as far as we know. The "singularity" does not mean "point" it means "the place where our math model gives un-physical results and we don't know what was really going on."
The beginning of the universe as we understand it was not a point and may in fact have been infinite in extent.

By the way, don't feel bad that you got sucked in by that mis-information. There are many dozens, probably hundreds, of posts here with people asking questions based on exactly that misunderstanding.

Appreciated. Was the distance between galaxies not smaller in the past?
If so, does that not imply light beams were closer then they are now?
 
  • #5
eugene pletcher said:
Appreciated. Was the distance between galaxies not smaller in the past?
Yes, and if you go back far enough there were no galaxies.
If so, does that not imply light beams were closer then they are now?
No, light is emitted from celestial objects, generally, radially and the angle between any two rays doesn't change as you get closer to the source.
 
  • #6
phinds said:
Yes, and if you go back far enough there were no galaxies.No, light is emitted from celestial objects, generally, radially and the angle between any two rays doesn't change as you get closer to the source.

Again thanks. Even when viewing several billion light years away, the light paths (travelling toward Earth) are not converging in the remote past?
 
  • #7
eugene pletcher said:
Again thanks. Even when viewing several billion light years away, the light paths (travelling toward Earth) are not converging in the remote past?
The photons that were emitted billions of years ago were closer to their source of origin than they are now, but so what? The photons that leave our sun are all within one solar diameter of each other when they leave and they get farther apart, but "converging" is the wrong way to think about that process in reverse.
 
  • #8
May I ask just one more question? Does expansion separate individual photons, which are massless? I'm not referring to geodesics, or curved space. I'm interested to know if expansion itself can cause two, almost parallel, photons to separate. I suspect that the answer is no.
Thanks :)
 
  • #9
eugene pletcher said:
May I ask just one more question? Does expansion separate individual photons, which are massless? I'm not referring to geodesics, or curved space. I'm interested to know if expansion itself can cause two, almost parallel, photons to separate. I suspect that the answer is no.
Thanks :)
I think in the sense that you mean (and I may be misinterpreting you) then of course they do because it's all just geometry. Mass has nothing to do with it.

Take two photons that are traveling "parallel" to each other in that they have started out from sources that are 5 billion light years apart and traveling to targets that are 5 billion light years apart and 8 billion light years away from the respective sources. The geometry of this is a rectangle. BUT ... as spacetime expands, the sides of the rectangle that represent the photons' paths to their targets becomes horn-shaped outward and the photons get farther apart.

Again, mass has nothing to do with it. Spacetime is a framework and a framework that changes size over time. Google "metric expansion".
 

Related to Light beams, from the present to the time of the big bang

1. How do light beams travel through space?

Light beams travel through space as electromagnetic waves, which do not require a medium to propagate. This means that light can travel through the vacuum of space at a constant speed of 299,792,458 meters per second.

2. How far back in time can we see with light beams?

The farthest we can see back in time with light beams is to the cosmic microwave background (CMB), which is the oldest light in the universe. This light was emitted about 380,000 years after the Big Bang, making it about 13.8 billion years old.

3. Can we see the Big Bang with light beams?

No, we cannot see the actual Big Bang with light beams because the universe was too hot and dense for light to travel during that time. However, we can observe the afterglow of the Big Bang, called the cosmic microwave background, which provides evidence for the Big Bang theory.

4. How does the expansion of the universe affect light beams?

The expansion of the universe causes light beams to stretch out over time, resulting in a phenomenon called cosmological redshift. This means that the wavelength of light increases as the universe expands, causing the light to appear more redshifted and making distant objects appear to be moving away from us.

5. Can light beams be used to study the history of the universe?

Yes, light beams can be used to study the history of the universe. By analyzing the light from distant objects, scientists can learn about the composition, temperature, and expansion of the universe at different points in time. This allows us to piece together the story of the universe from the present all the way back to the time of the Big Bang.

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