Lagrange Multipliers: A Long First Post

In summary, the conversation discusses the Lagrangian of a particle moving under constant gravity and the use of the Lagrange multiplier method to incorporate constraints. The equations of motion are derived and the dimensions and physical meaning of the Lagrange multiplier are discussed. The system's conservativeness is also examined, with the expression for the constant energy being derived. The conversation ends with a discussion on the particle's angle of leaving the surface and the maximum initial speed for the particle to slide along the surface.
  • #1
stunner5000pt
1,461
2
A long first post, but not too hard!

dont worry about this i already solved it thanks anyway!

The lagrangian of a particle of mass m moving under constant gravity is
[tex] \mathcal{L} = \frac{1}{2} m (\dot{x}^2 + \dot{z}^2 - mgz = \frac{1}{2}m (\dot{\rho}^2 + \rho^2 \dot{\phi}^2) - mg \rho \cos \phi [/tex]
If the particle is contrained to move on the surface rho= R where R>0 is a constant (such as a parrticle slifing off a sphere or a cylinder) thjen the constraint is rho =R can be taken into account, in teh Lagrangian Formalism by the Lagrange multiplier method i.e. by starting wiuth the lagrangian
[tex] \mathcal{L}' = \mathcal{L} + \lambda (\rho - R) [/tex]

a) Work out the two equations of motion [tex] \frac{d}{dt} \left(\frac{\partial L'}{\partial \dot{q_{i}}} \right) = \frac{\partial L'}{\partial q_{i}}, q_{i}= (\rho,phi) [/tex]

Do i have to solve these? I mean i will be forming coupled non linear second order DEs...

[tex] \frac{\partial L'}{\partial \phi} = mg \rho \sin \phi [/tex]
[tex] \frac{\partial L'}{\partial \dot{\phi}} = m \rho^2 \dot{\phi} [/tex]
[tex] \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\partial L'}{\partial \dot{\phi}} = 2 m \rho \dot{\rho} \dot{\phi} + m \rho^2 \ddot{\phi} [/tex]
into the Euler Lagrange
[tex] 2 m \rho \dot{\rho} \dot{\phi} + m \rho^2 \ddot{\phi} = mg \rho \sin \phi [/tex]

[tex] \frac{\partial L'}{\partial \rho} = m \rho \dot{\phi}^2 - mg \cos \phi - \lambda [/tex]
[tex] \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{p}} = \frac{d}{dt} m \dot{\rho} = m \ddot{\rho} [/tex]
Euler Lagrange
[tex] m \ddot{\rho} = m \rho \dot{\phi}^2 - mg \cos \phi - \lambda [/tex]

i don't think it is possibel to solve them...

b) Incorporate the constraint rho = R into the equations obtained in a). Detremine the dimensions of the Lagrange multiplier lambda and explain teh physical meaning of lambda. (use a diagram)

[tex] R \dot{\phi}^2 + g \cos \phi + \frac{\lambda}{m} = 0 [/tex]
[tex] \ddot{\phi} - mR \sin \dot{\phi} - mg \sin \phi = 0 [/tex]
rearrange the first one for lambda yields
[tex] \lambda = -m(R \dot{\phi}^2 + g \cos \phi) [/tex]
so lambda's units are
[tex] \lambda = kg(m \frac{rad^2}{s^2} + \frac{m}{s^2}) [/tex]
so lambda is N rad^2 + N ...? How si this siginificant >??

c)Determine whether thi system is conservative. If so derive the expression for the cosnant energy. If the system is not conservativem explain why not.
System is conservative if the force can be written as the derivative of some function dpeendant on one variable only (??)
well isn't hte force simply mg?
to find the constant energy expression do i find the Hamiltonian of the system? Two variables so there will be two of them?

d)Use your results of b and c to obtai the expression for lambda at angle phi given that the particel starts at phi =0 (t hte top of the sphere or cylinder) and is given an intiial speed of v0 = R omega0

e) At hwat angle would hte particle leave teh surface (of the sphere or cylinder)? What would this angle be if v0 = 0? What is tha largest vbalue that v0 could be for the particle to slide along the sphere (or cylinder) at least briefly? Evaluate this limiting value of v0 if R=1 meter.

last two i will psot solutions for later on
 
Last edited:
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  • #2
[itex] \lambda [/itex]'s units are of force...So...

Daniel.
 

Related to Lagrange Multipliers: A Long First Post

1. What are Lagrange multipliers and why are they useful?

Lagrange multipliers are a mathematical tool used to optimize a function subject to one or more constraints. They are useful because they allow us to find the maximum or minimum value of a function while satisfying the given constraints.

2. How do Lagrange multipliers work?

Lagrange multipliers work by introducing a new variable, called the Lagrange multiplier, into the original function and then finding the critical points of this new function. These critical points correspond to the optimal solutions of the original function subject to the given constraints.

3. What are some real-world applications of Lagrange multipliers?

Lagrange multipliers have many real-world applications, including in economics, engineering, physics, and statistics. They can be used to optimize production processes, minimize costs, and maximize profits. They are also useful in solving problems involving multiple variables and constraints, such as finding the shortest path between two points while avoiding obstacles.

4. Are there any limitations or drawbacks to using Lagrange multipliers?

One limitation of Lagrange multipliers is that they may not always provide the global optimum solution, only a local optimum. Additionally, they can become computationally intensive when solving problems with a large number of variables and constraints.

5. Can Lagrange multipliers be extended to handle more complex problems?

Yes, Lagrange multipliers can be extended to handle more complex problems, such as those with non-linear constraints or multiple Lagrange multipliers. There are also variations of Lagrange multipliers, such as KKT conditions, that can be used to solve more challenging optimization problems.

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