One-off: Black drop problem an SR effect?

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June 10, 2004"In summary, the upcoming solar transit of Venus will provide scientists with the opportunity to study the "black drop" problem, a phenomenon that makes timing the transits difficult. This effect is seen as a dark neck or pear shape as the black disc of Venus appears on the sun, and the opposite occurs when it leaves the sun. While some initially thought this may be explained through special relativity or general relativity, it has since been determined to be an atmospheric phenomenon. However, recent observations of the same effect during the transit of Mercury have cast doubt on this explanation. Despite over a century of observation and numerous high-quality images, the cause of the black drop effect remains unresolved
  • #1
OneEye
One-off: "Black drop" problem an SR effect?

From a Reuters science article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=1&u=/nm/20040511/sc_nm/space_venus_dc )

Reuters Science, Scientists Prepare for Rare Astronomical Event:

[The solar transit of Venus] will allow scientists to study the famous "black drop" problem which makes timing the transits difficult. As the black disc of Venus appears on the sun it seems to have a dark neck, or become pear-shaped, for a short time. The opposite occurs when it leaves the sun.
This sounds like something one would want to explain through SR - perhaps GR.

Any comments from anyone?
 
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  • #2
No, it's an atmospheric phenomenon (Venus' atmosphere, that is!).

http://www.vt-2004.org/Media/vt-comm-03.html a more suitable site for following this rare event ... a bit like Halley's comet - most people will see such a thing only once in their lifetime (and many, not even that!).

You might find the Teachers' Guide, on the VT site, of interest (and there are plenty of links to explore the whole thing in much more detail). :biggrin:
 
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  • #3
Yes, I always thought it was an optical phenomena due to a slight refraction of the light at the solar edge passing through the atmosphere of Venus.
 
  • #4
Okay, thanks.

Boy, I sure made that simple question complicated, didn't I?

I must be management material!
 
  • #5
Glad we could help.

Don't stop asking questions! Questions are good; curiosity is good. :smile:

Perhaps more managers should ask more questions?

Kind Regards
Nereid
 
  • #6
Actually...

OneEye said:
Okay, thanks.

Boy, I sure made that simple question complicated, didn't I?

Actually, it's apparently not that simple.

I've just been corrected by an article that I came across which stated that the TRACE satellite recently detected the same black drop phenomena in the recent solar transit of Mercury,...which casts doubt on the previous explanation since Mercury has NO atmosphere.

So apparently, the effect is still considered an unresolved (and somewhat bothersome) paradox.

Thanks for the question; it made me re-check my assumptions.

Anyone thought this one through...and come up with OTHER possibilities??
 
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  • #7
With the benefit of more than a century in observational astronomy (equipment, techniques, detailed understanding of 'seeing', ...), and many thousands of high quality images of the transit, from many locations and using a wide variety of equipment, ... the conclusion (so far) on the 'black drop effect' is ...

"Scientifically, solar photographers confirmed that the black drop effect is really better related to the viewing clarity of the camera or telescope than the atmosphere of Venus."

Source: Astronomy Picture of the Day
 

1. What is the "Black drop problem" in relation to the SR effect?

The Black drop problem is a phenomenon observed during the transit of a planet in front of a star. As the planet moves across the star's surface, there is a delay in the start and end times of the transit, resulting in a dip in the observed brightness of the star. This delay is known as the "Black drop" and is caused by the overlapping of the planet's silhouette with the star's limb.

2. How does the SR effect contribute to the "Black drop problem"?

The SR effect, or the Schwarzschild radius effect, is a phenomenon in which the light from a distant star is bent as it passes near a massive object, such as a planet. This bending of light can cause the observed position of the star to shift, resulting in the overlap of the planet's silhouette with the star's limb, causing the "Black drop" effect.

3. What factors affect the severity of the "Black drop problem"?

The severity of the "Black drop problem" is affected by various factors, including the size and mass of the planet, the distance between the planet and the star, and the viewing angle of the transit. A larger planet, a smaller distance, and a larger viewing angle can all contribute to a more significant "Black drop" effect.

4. How do scientists account for the "Black drop problem" in their observations?

Scientists have developed various techniques to account for the "Black drop problem" in their observations. These include using multiple telescopes to observe the transit from different angles, modeling the SR effect and applying corrections to the observed data, and using sophisticated data analysis techniques to minimize the impact of the "Black drop" on the final results.

5. Are there any potential solutions to the "Black drop problem"?

While there is no definitive solution to the "Black drop problem," ongoing research and advancements in technology and observation techniques are helping to minimize its impact on transit observations. Additionally, future space missions, such as the James Webb Space Telescope, may provide more precise measurements of transits, reducing the effects of the "Black drop" even further.

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