If you don't believe in atoms

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In summary: And a scientific theory is not accepted based on belief, but on evidence and experimental verification.In summary, the conversation is about someone who does not believe in atoms and finds the idea of them "too perfect". The person asking the question is looking for a picture of atoms to make the concept more plausible. However, the other participants suggest that trying to convince someone who has a belief without evidence is futile. They also mention that a scientific theory should not be accepted based on belief, but on evidence and experimentation.
  • #1
nonequilibrium
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Hello,

Someone I know doesn't believe in atoms. I know it sounds strange: the person acknowledges that the model that is used is useful for calculations, but apparently the idea of an atom sounds "too perfect". And apparently the structure of an atom lattice is also too perfect. But aren't there "pictures" of atom lattices using tunneling microscopes? Or atomic force microscopes? So my question is: can anybody refer me to a nice picture of atoms so I can make the idea of atoms more plausible? I'm also posting here because some of you guys maybe also have other arguments for why atoms are more than guess-work.
 
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  • #2
Just take a quick google for scanning electron microscope pictures or what have you. Of course, they're all artist renditions for the most part... so it really comes down to what kinda proof the person is looking for. Also, how is the idea of an atom "too perfect"? Atomic physics is complicated, just as everything in physics.
 
  • #3
I know, I found the objection "too perfect" quite vague too. But I can imagine that it can come across as unreal, that's why I thought of showing pictures. The reason I showed here asking for pictures is that I don't know in what way I can claim they are pictures. I mean, they are some sort of experimental verification, but to what degree are we making those pictures into what we want to see. Is it just the idea of bouncing a basketball against a wall to discover where the wall is?
 
  • #4
The word "believe" is a warning flag. Keep in mind Bertrand Russell's definintion: "belief" is "that for which there is no evidence".

If his viewpoint really is about "belief", don't waste your time on him. On the other hand if he has a different theory that claims to explain some observed phenomena, then you might have a starting point for a rational discussion ("rational" = "without the b-word").
 
  • #5
mr. vodka said:
Hello,

Someone I know doesn't believe in atoms. I know it sounds strange: the person acknowledges that the model that is used is useful for calculations, but apparently the idea of an atom sounds "too perfect". And apparently the structure of an atom lattice is also too perfect. But aren't there "pictures" of atom lattices using tunneling microscopes? Or atomic force microscopes? So my question is: can anybody refer me to a nice picture of atoms so I can make the idea of atoms more plausible? I'm also posting here because some of you guys maybe also have other arguments for why atoms are more than guess-work.

This is a rather futile argument, because his objection is unfalsifiable.

If I say I don't buy the idea of atoms because it sounds strange, how do you falsify that? The objection is based on personal feelings and a matter of tastes. You might as well argue about someone's favorite color.

Just TELL him (the way he TOLD you he didn't believe in it) that his "belief" contradicts all available scientific evidence, and that challenges to a scientific idea can only come from valid scientific evidence, not based on a matter of tastes. Beyond that, you're wasting time and effort for nothing.

Zz.
 
  • #7
AlephZero said:
If his viewpoint really is about "belief", don't waste your time on him.

I agree. Showing him STM/AFM images won't sway him. He'll just respond "I don't believe in STM/AFM either".
 
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  • #8
AlephZero said:
The word "believe" is a warning flag. Keep in mind Bertrand Russell's definintion: "belief" is "that for which there is no evidence".

If his viewpoint really is about "belief", don't waste your time on him. On the other hand if he has a different theory that claims to explain some observed phenomena, then you might have a starting point for a rational discussion ("rational" = "without the b-word").

Quite right. "Belief" is never rational, but just a personal feeling.
 

Related to If you don't believe in atoms

1. What evidence is there for the existence of atoms?

There is a wealth of evidence from various scientific disciplines that support the existence of atoms. For example, experiments such as Brownian motion and the photoelectric effect provide evidence for the existence of individual particles. Additionally, the behavior of gases and the results of chemical reactions also support the existence of atoms.

2. If atoms are too small to see, how do we know they exist?

Although we cannot see individual atoms with the naked eye, we can indirectly observe their existence through various experimental techniques. For example, we can use powerful microscopes, such as scanning tunneling microscopes, to image individual atoms. We can also use X-ray crystallography to determine the atomic structure of materials.

3. Can atoms be divided into smaller particles?

According to the current understanding of atomic theory, atoms are the smallest unit of matter and cannot be divided into smaller particles. However, in certain extreme conditions, such as in particle accelerators, atoms can be split into smaller particles such as protons, neutrons, and electrons.

4. How are atoms organized and arranged?

Atoms are organized and arranged in a specific way to form molecules and compounds. The arrangement of atoms within a molecule is determined by the type and number of chemical bonds between them. Atoms can also form different structures, such as crystals, depending on how they are arranged.

5. Are there different types of atoms?

Yes, there are many different types of atoms, known as elements. Each element has a unique number of protons, which determines its chemical properties. The periodic table of elements lists all the known elements, with over 100 currently discovered.

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