Ice core data shows 27% increase in CO2

In summary, the researchers found that when there are increased levels of CO2, plants may not be able to get the nutrients they need to survive.
  • #1
Mk
2,043
4
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051125/ap_on_sc/greenhouse_gas
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1516607.htm
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8369&print=true
Levels of CO2 are now 27% percent higher than at any point in the past 650,000 years, according to research into Antarctic ice cores.
The study, which provides more evidence of human interference in the climate system, pushes back our greenhouse gas record by 210,000 years and now encompasses four glacial cycles.
 
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  • #2
27% above averge? What is the standard deviation first?
 
  • #3
Apparently, going from the first post, 27% higher than any previous point. Not 27% above the average.
 
  • #4
Hi Patty, sorry for neglicting this thread, I was having the discussion here:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=221

and here:

http://www.ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25636&posts=12

http://www.ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25682&posts=8

Bottom line: known problems with the ice, the open snow-ice ("firn") at the first ~80 meters in which the air freely passes tends to dampen shorter gas spikes. For the Greenland cores we are talking about century scale fluctuations but those cores only go back to some 120 thousand years. The continental Antarctic cores (Vostok, Dome-C) are much older but the spike problem is on millenium scale due to the slow accumulation. This means that we cannot see shorther higher CO2 spikes in the ice cores. However,

Leaf stomata of certain species (the Stomata Density or count per mm) react on CO2 as well, the more CO2 the less stomata per mm. However, this branch of science is juvenile and regarded with great suspicion, which is logical because indeed it shows a much larger variation in CO2 than the ice cores do. One proxy (Jay Bath) suggest a possible CO2 concentration in the order of magnitude of 500ppmv in the dark ages after the fall of the Roman Empire (currently some 375ppm) but the Author, Lenny Kouwenberg, starts doubting her own findings perhaps avoiding the controversy.

Here is the PhD thesis in question:

http://www.bio.uu.nl/~palaeo/Personeel/Lenny/artikellinks/full.pdf
 
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  • #5
Hi Andre,

Don't feel obliged to point me towards other threads. I was merely correcting kant's misunderstanding of what the OP said.
 
  • #6
But others may like to click on links too.
 
  • #7
Here is an article about a short term study of CO2 in the atmosphere and it's effects on trees.

Since 1968, researchers have gathered air samples from near the summit of Colorado's Niwot Ridge in the Rocky Mountains, and tracked carbon dioxide levels in the conifer forest below. They've amassed the world's third-longest record of atmospheric carbon dioxide, and that record provides a troubling glimpse of how forests respond to a warming world. The biological start of spring in the Niwot forest was about 10.5 days earlier in 2002 than it was in 1980, and cool fall temperatures are coming later. "It's shocking," said researcher Pieter Tans. "It was more than I expected." That bodes ill for the Northern Hemisphere's mountain forests: An earlier spring usually means a hotter, drier summer, with water-stressed trees that are easier prey for insects, disease, and forest fires. Trees hurting for water also photosynthesize more slowly, pulling less carbon dioxide from the air than a healthy forest would.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4310949,00.html
 
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  • #8
I don't understand... If the global warming was caused by high amounts of CO2, then the trees would have a lot of extra CO2 for photosynthesis. But of course if it is hotter, that would mean more water vapour, meaning less water that the trees can suck up. More water vapor also means more clouds, which increase the Earth's albedo, and cool the Earth. More water vapor also means more precipitation (correct assumption?), meaning more water for trees to suck up...

We don't know what is stronger, and what is weaker.
 
  • #9
Mk said:
I don't understand... If the global warming was caused by high amounts of CO2, then the trees would have a lot of extra CO2 for photosynthesis. But of course if it is hotter, that would mean more water vapour, meaning less water that the trees can suck up. More water vapor also means more clouds, which increase the Earth's albedo, and cool the Earth. More water vapor also means more precipitation (correct assumption?), meaning more water for trees to suck up...

We don't know what is stronger, and what is weaker.
There is a study done with plants in an increased CO2 environment. The plants have a smaller stomata, leading to a decrease in transpiration. Less transpiration, less water being sucked up, less nutrients in the plant from the soil.

Dude, Where's My Carbon?

Now that researchers have detected CO2-induced nutrient deficiencies, they are seeking to understand why they happen. And they think they have found some relatively simple underlying causes -- simple to scientists, that is, although perhaps not to those of us who glazed over in high-school biology.

We live in a carbon world, scientists explain: All life on earth, from oranges to orangutans, is carbon-based. Most of this carbon comes from our atmosphere, which is absorbed by plants, which pass it on to grazing animals, which in turn pass it on to their predators. Change the levels of atmospheric carbon, and all plants and animals along the chain may be affected.

Here's how: Plants create much of their biomass out of thin air, from a steady diet of CO2 sucked through small leaf openings called stomata. Then, via the miraculous sleight-of-hand known as photosynthesis, the plants combine CO2 and water in the presence of chlorophyll and sunlight to make carbohydrates, simple sugars, and complex starches, which provide energy for plant growth. Much of the remainder of what plants need -- nitrogen and trace elements -- doesn't come from the air, but is pulled up through the root system from the soil.

Scientists have isolated two mechanisms that potentially explain how elevated CO2 levels reduce plant nutrients. The first is a "biomass dilution" effect. As plants absorb more airborne carbon, they produce higher-than-normal levels of carbohydrates but are unable to boost their relative intake of soil nutrients. The result of this dilution effect is increased yields of carbohydrate-rich fruits, vegetables, and grains that contain lower levels of macro- and micronutrients. Put simply, a bite of bread in our current CO2 atmosphere ends up being more nutritious than one in the CO2-enriched atmosphere of the future.

A second problem: Plants exposed to increased CO2 levels start to narrow the stomata through which they inhale CO2 and exhale water vapor via transpiration. This benefits plants by making them more drought resistant, but it also means that fewer waterborne nutrients flow into the roots. According to Loladze, if carbon-dioxide levels are doubled, transpiration decreases by about 23 percent.

A particularly disturbing study suggests that the mechanisms of CO2 nutrient depletion may already be causing a decline in the quality of our food supply. Josep Penuelas of the Center for Ecological Research and Forestry Applications in Barcelona, Spain, compared historical plant samples grown at preindustrial levels of atmospheric CO2 with modern equivalents. He found that today's plants had the lowest levels of calcium, copper, iron, potassium, magnesium, sodium, sulfur, and zinc than at any time in the last three centuries.
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2005/07/12/scherer-plantchem/?source=daily
 
  • #10
There is a study done with plants in an increased CO2 environment. The plants have a smaller stomata, leading to a decrease in transpiration. Less transpiration, less water being sucked up, less nutrients in the plant from the soil.
Yes, stomata on leaves is a good indicator of CO2 in the air. But if the stomata are smaller, and there is less transpiration, isn't there more water in the plant than, so the plant doesn't need as much water front the ground?
 
  • #11
Mk said:
Yes, stomata on leaves is a good indicator of CO2 in the air. But if the stomata are smaller, and there is less transpiration, isn't there more water in the plant than, so the plant doesn't need as much water front the ground?
Exactly. If the plant does not draw water from the ground, it doesn't draw nutrients from the ground either. Which leads to less nutritious plants.
 
  • #12
The stomata story may be a bit different. It's not the size but the count of stomata per area that changes and only for certain species other may not react. There is not one study about stomata reaction to CO2 but many, it could fill libraries.

Stomata studies show some consistency with ice cores but they also show a much bigger variation than the ice cores.

This PhD thesis especially interresting albeit that the author did not really want to challenge ice core wishdom:

introduction:

http://www.biol.ruu.nl/~palaeo/Personeel/Lenny/artikellinks/introduction_thesis.pdf

Full thesis (6 MB)

http://www.biol.ruu.nl/~palaeo/Personeel/Lenny/artikellinks/full.pdf

Note especially ch5 and 6 about a possible high CO2 level in the early medieval period that dwarfed whatever there is in the ice cores.
 
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Related to Ice core data shows 27% increase in CO2

What is ice core data and how is it collected?

Ice core data is a record of past climate and atmospheric conditions that is extracted from ice sheets and glaciers. To collect ice core data, a drill is used to extract cylindrical samples of ice from deep within the ice sheet. These samples are then analyzed for various chemical and physical properties to gather information about past climates.

How does ice core data show an increase in CO2?

CO2 is trapped within air bubbles in the ice when it is formed. By analyzing the concentration of CO2 within these bubbles, scientists can determine the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere at different points in time. As the ice cores are dated, the data shows a clear increase in CO2 levels over the past few centuries.

What does a 27% increase in CO2 mean for the environment?

A 27% increase in CO2 levels means that there has been a significant rise in the amount of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere. This increase is primarily due to human activities such as burning fossil fuels and deforestation. The higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere contribute to global warming and climate change.

How can we use ice core data to predict future climate changes?

By studying patterns in ice core data and understanding how past increases in CO2 have affected the climate, scientists can make predictions about future climate changes. This data can also be used to create models that simulate potential future scenarios and inform policymakers about the potential impacts of continued CO2 emissions.

What steps can be taken to reduce CO2 levels and mitigate the effects of climate change?

To reduce CO2 levels and mitigate the effects of climate change, individuals and governments can take steps such as using renewable energy sources, reducing carbon emissions from transportation and industry, and promoting sustainable practices like reforestation. It is also important to continue monitoring and studying ice core data to better understand the impacts of CO2 on the environment and make informed decisions for the future.

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