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Alexander
In our quantum universe future is not set. So, how could God know "all what comes" if there is non yet?
And yet it seems the higher the "intelligence factor," the less likely things are apt to occur by chance. In other words you seem to have put the "cart before the horse."Originally posted by Alexander
In our quantum universe future is not set. So, how could God know "all what comes" if there is non yet?
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Whereas if I see a car driving down the road, and I know that road only goes one place, say to the end of town, then I could fairly reasonably "predict" the car is going to the end of town.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that things which are governed by "higher principles" (on evolutionary scale if nothing else) are less subject to chance? If so, doesn't that make them "more predictable?"Originally posted by Alexander
Only with some probability (car may ran out of gas or oil, or skid into trench at turn, tire may blow, driver may get important call, or realize that this is dead end, etc etc). That is exactly what our world seems to be - uncertainty and probability. Thus no way of knowing exact future - it is not set yet.
Thus, uncompartibility of such "knowing-it-all" God with our universe.
Because God is the source of the quantum-universe, and we must presume that God knows where his own energy (body, so to speak) is going to 'act'.Originally posted by Alexander
In our quantum universe future is not set. So, how could God know "all what comes" if there is non yet?
That's like saying that once God made his own thoughts unpredictable, that he lost control over his own thoughts.Originally posted by Alexander
Once god made universe quantum, then he lost all control over its futher future.
You can create a calculator that doesn't make mistakes can't you? It would just be a matter of understanding the "principles" that go into creating it. Therefore, if God understands the principles that go into all things, why can't He also understand how everything turns out in the end?Originally posted by Alexander
In our quantum universe future is not set. So, how could God know "all what comes" if there is non yet?
Pretty much...So we are damned if it is and damned if it isn't.
And yet the higher the "faculty of reason," the less one is likely to make mistakes ... albeit there was probably an "initial choice" to be reasonable in the first place.Originally posted by FZ+
Pretty much...
There a different problem, depending on which way you look at it.
Absolute determinism -> no free will -> morality etc do not make sense -> irrelevance of God
No determinism -> no predictability -> contradiction with omniscience clause -> God is irrational
Or so it seems...
EDIT: ie. it isn't a matter of there being no place for God now, but that he is inconsistent with the things we observe. The laws of quantum uncertainty, for example...
Originally posted by Alexander
In our quantum universe future is not set. So, how could God know "all what comes" if there is non yet?
Do you know the true reason for that unpredictability? your answer is no, and you can't use that argument.Originally posted by Alexander
Even math does not know that (simply because it is not defined), how God can?
The "light cone" of unpredictability (so to speak) makes future events exponentially less and less predictable with time down into future.
Lets face it, god is undisprovable. Thus its axiom, assumption that can be either true or false. Its probability of being either is exactly 50%, no less, no more. How we define god is factually irrelevant. Sad part of most religions is that they've been used as weapon against human mind, to lock it. Those who lock onto concept of god, are lost to progress of civilization and are stuck in vegetative indulging. Luckily there are not too many. Healthy amount of doubt and independance of any mantras allows one to have open mind for any possibility. To argue about definitions of god is completely fruitless, and attempt to convert people is aggression. Given our childish state of understanding of god, colored by only myriad of idiotic religions, it can be only very very personal matter, very bland discussions.What I try to analyse here - is there ANY room for god(s) in physical world, or by its very definition God is outside of it. By other words, which laws of Nature we have to "cancel" by assuming existence of God?
No. The probability varies from observer to observer, depending on experience, genetics etc. To have an unified probability that is true for everyone kinda defeats the point of having probabilities in the first place...Its probability of being either is exactly 50%, no less, no more.
wow, that's kinda deep. Probability of encountering god after death varies from observer to observer, location, etc..Originally posted by FZ+
No. The probability varies from observer to observer, depending on experience, genetics etc. To have an unified probability that is true for everyone kinda defeats the point of having probabilities in the first place...
Originally posted by wimms
Do you know the true reason for that unpredictability? your answer is no, and you can't use that argument.
Lets face it, god is undisprovable.
Any room? There's always room. As long as there exists one single axiom, there is room. Maybe logic of universe and time are not quite that, but they're as close as you can get to common part of all definitions of god, trinity. They are literally everywhere.
Originally posted by FZ+
And hence, gentlemen, is the proof for the wave-particle duality of Divine Entities.
Originally posted by wimms
Its probability of being either is exactly 50%, no less, no more.
infinity is undefinable, so therefore by your logic infinity doesn't exist? that parallel universe article seems to disagree.Now, if God is undefinable, then He does not exist by definition. There is NO god(s) yet unless you define it (them).
I think if we are to "experience" God, then it should be from the standpoint of "wholeness." The use of "logic" by itself -- i.e., without "intuition" -- won't do.Originally posted by Alexander
It depends on tools you use to analyse existence of God(s). If you use a tool called logic, this probability asymptotically reaches zero.
Originally posted by HazZy
well my dictionary (it's old, that might be be the problem) defines "define" -- To determine or clearly exhibit the boundaries of; to mark the limits of. infinity as i know it is boundless, therefore, how do you define it?
Yes, especially if there is a heaven and a hell. Those who are in heaven turn towards God (which in heaven is portrayed as The Sun), while those who are in hell face away (from the encounter).Originally posted by wimms
wow, that's kinda deep. Probability of encountering god after death varies from observer to observer, location, etc..
Quantum god in universe?
well see again I am thrown in between your definition and websters. Infinity: 1. Unlimited extent of time, space, or quantity; eternity; boundlessness; immensity.Originally posted by Alexander
It is not boundless, it simply has LOWER bound instead of UPPER.
Your mind is closed when discussing such subject, isn't it? What you know is:Originally posted by Alexander
-- Do you know the true reason for that unpredictability? (wimms)
Of course, I do. The reason is that many systems obey specific kind of differential equations which solution is exponent (of time). And exponent is DIVERGING (with time) function.
I don't care a about definitions of any dogmas. Why you need stupid religions? Dogmas are brainwashing tools. I don't really care about god or its definition.Incorrect. God is undefinable simply because it does not exist. Define Him, and I'll prove to you that He does not exist. Make sure you definition is acceptable (=complies with Bible or at least with major dogmas of religion).
Only defined stuff exists, only what fits your mind? Oh well. Or what you mean by 'undefineable'? There is difference, whether its undefineable today or in principle.Now, if God is undefinable, then He does not exist by definition. There is NO god(s) yet unless you define it (them).
So much of bland discussions.. It always ends right there.Any fact to substantiate your "observation" of everywhereness? I think you have too rich imagination which does not let you to separate facts from illusions.
Originally posted by HazZy
well see again I am thrown in between your definition and websters. Infinity: 1. Unlimited extent of time, space, or quantity; eternity; boundlessness; immensity.
anyways doesn't a lower bound specify it being equal to or less than another number in a set? and a upper bound a number equal to or greater than another number in a set? therefore since infinity^2=infinity there is no upper or lower bounds to inifinty (there both equal), it's boundless. am i missing something here?