The Impact of Light on Primary Force - Understanding Speed

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of speed and how it relates to the existence of objects. It is explained that light does not exist as a physical entity, but is rather a stimulation of Primary Force. While it may seem like light travels, it is actually the movement of the medium (Primary Force) that can be measured in terms of speed. The conversation also touches on the speed of sound and how it relates to the speed of light. It is concluded that light travels in straight lines at a constant speed, regulated by Newton's law of inertia.
  • #1
Kanelous
19
0
For something to travel at any speed it has to exist.

Light does not exist as a physical entity. It is the stimulation of Primary Force.

Light does not travel.

Think of it this way. Suppose you had a steel bar of x feet. Hit the end with a hammer. Then ask how long does it take for the impact of that blow to move the other end?

Instantaneous. No.

What exactly is traveling from the point of impact to the other end?

It is the movement at the other end of the steel bar that is a result of the blow from the hammer.

If the steel bar were long enough there would be a difference in time from the blow to the movement at the other end.

Mathematically the difference in time could be calculated and represented as speed. But what was actually moving?

It was not the hammer.

Light does the same thing to Primary Force as a blow to the steel bar. It forces a movement in the field that can be measured in terms of speed.

There is no speed of light, only the time it's impact on Primary Force takes to get from A to B.
 
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  • #2
Originally posted by Kanelous
For something to travel at any speed it has to exist.

Light does not exist as a physical entity. It is the stimulation of Primary Force.

Light does not travel.

Think of it this way. Suppose you had a steel bar of x feet. Hit the end with a hammer. Then ask how long does it take for the impact of that blow to move the other end?

Instantaneous. No.

What exactly is traveling from the point of impact to the other end?

It is the movement at the other end of the steel bar that is a result of the blow from the hammer.

If the steel bar were long enough there would be a difference in time from the blow to the movement at the other end.

Mathematically the difference in time could be calculated and represented as speed. But what was actually moving?


A compression wave that travels at the speed of sound through the steel bar. This speed is

[tex]V = \sqrt{\frac{e}{d}}[/tex]

With e and d being the elasticity and density of the steel.



It was not the hammer.

Light does the same thing to Primary Force as a blow to the steel bar. It forces a movement in the field that can be measured in terms of speed.

There is no speed of light, only the time it's impact on Primary Force takes to get from A to B.

Light is a disturbance of the electromagnetic field which travels as a wave with the speed of

[tex]v=\frac{1}{\sqrt{\epsilon \mu}}[/tex]

With [tex]\epsilon[/tex] and [tex]\mu[/tex] being the permittivity and permeability of the medium.
 
  • #3
My example of the steel bar was not to illustrate the bar as a wave medium but there are two ends to the bar.

One end is hit by a hammer and the entire bar moves. The end farthest from where it was intially struck and moved also moves.

If the bar were short it would seem instantaneous, but if the bar were very long there would be a delay in its movement.

The difference could be measured in terms of speed, but my question is: The speed of what?
 
  • #4
Originally posted by Kanelous
The difference could be measured in terms of speed, but my question is: The speed of what?
Asked and answered: the speed of sound.

So applied to light, even if light were entirely a wave phenomenon like sound (it isn't) it would still have its own specific speed.
 
  • #5
The actual time it takes for a light source to travel is well documented. My only point is that it is not the light itself that is travelling, but the movement of the medium (Primary Force).

I like Janus' response, but I don't believe Primary Force is an electro magnetic field. I think Primary Force is space itself, and Gravity is the acceleration of Primary Force.
 
  • #6
Originally posted by Kanelous
The actual time it takes for a light source to travel is well documented. My only point is that it is not the light itself that is travelling, but the movement of the medium (Primary Force).
Even if light were entirely a wave phenomenon (again - it isn't), that isn't how wave phenomenon to work. Again, using sound as an example, the "sound" is the wave traveling on the medium and it has a specific associated velocity. The medium oscillates but has no cumulative displacement.

So for light, the wave is the light itself traveling.
 
  • #7
Reply to Russ Waters,

You got me. You are right.

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

Kanelous
 
  • #8
Originally posted by Kanelous
Reply to Russ Waters,

You got me. You are right.

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

Kanelous
No prob. Thanks for keeping an open mind - its sometimes a rarity here.
 
  • #9
Originally posted by russ_watters
So for light, the wave is the light itself traveling.

And what regulates its speed in various local areas of space?
 
  • #10
Originally posted by David
And what regulates its speed in various local areas of space?

David,

Light in the presence of a gravitational field will change direction, but photons which are not subjected to an outside force must travel in straight lines at a constant speed, when viewed in an inertial frame, and in absence of a gravitational field, by Newton's law of inertia. So in a sense, Newton's law of inertia regulates the speed of light. That law says that something which is moving will continue to move in a right line, unless something exterior acts to change this. Euclid himself worked out the ray theory of light over two thousand years ago. As for the exact speed of light in an inertial frame, this is found by experiment to be roughly 186,000 miles per second. It is presumed that this has been the case since time eo ipso. And one of the postulates of the theory of relativity is that the speed of light in an inertial frame is a universal constant c. So in any inertial frame, the derivative of the speed of light with respect to the spatial and temporal coordinates of that frame, must equal zero, when the photon isn't feeling any force.
 
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  • #11
Originally posted by StarThrower
David,

Light in the presence of a gravitational field will change direction,

Do you know why it does that? Do you understand what Einstein said about it in 1911? Do you know what a “plane wave” is and why light bends when it enters glass?

What you are repeating to me as if from memory is incorrect 8th grade science stuff. Just like I was taught in the 1950s that electrons “orbit” the nucleus of an atom just like planets orbit the sun, even though this description of atoms went out in the 1920s. It was not true when it was taught to me, and my teachers knew it was not true, but it was easier to explain than the truth, so that’s what they taught me, along with the fable about “green plants” growing on the surface of Mars, the “gradualism only” story of geology, and the “Piltdown” ape-man hoax. I have spent a lifetime trying to un-learn the lies my science teachers taught me in the 1950s.
 
  • #12
Reply to David,

Lighten up.

What you have unlearned and re-learned may also be wrong.

We are in a zone of the unknowable. Its all theory. Facts are scare. Conjecture is fun.
 
  • #13
Originally posted by Kanelous
Reply to David,

Lighten up.

What you have unlearned and re-learned may also be wrong.
Couldn't agree more. Drop the attutude, David, and maybe you will learn something.
 
  • #14
Originally posted by russ_watters
maybe you will learn something too.

I think you need to learn that light photons/waves both speed up and slow down relative to the earth, during their travel through space, and there’s plenty of observation and theory to back this up.
 

1. What is primary force?

Primary force refers to the fundamental force that is responsible for the movement and interaction of matter. It is the foundation of all other forces and is also known as the universal force or the strong force.

2. How does light impact primary force?

Light has a significant impact on primary force as it is one of the four fundamental forces of nature. Light particles, also known as photons, carry energy and can interact with matter through the electromagnetic force, influencing the movement and behavior of particles.

3. What is the relationship between light and speed?

Light travels at a constant speed of approximately 299,792,458 meters per second in a vacuum. This speed is considered to be the fastest possible speed in the universe and is a fundamental constant in the laws of physics.

4. How does understanding the impact of light on primary force benefit us?

Studying the impact of light on primary force helps us understand the fundamental laws of nature and how the universe works. It also has practical applications, such as in the development of technology like lasers, which use the properties of light and force to perform various tasks.

5. What are some current research areas related to the impact of light on primary force?

Current research in this field includes understanding the relationship between light and gravity, studying the behavior of light in extreme conditions such as black holes, and exploring the potential of using light to control and manipulate primary force for various purposes.

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