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He is a genius , he didn't complete school

ZaidAlyafey

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 17, 2013
1,667
We might hear from one source or another that a famous scientist was always humiliated by his teacher when he was a student . We might hear about another who failed school or university but he became an inspiring figure after some years . So why do you think such things happen ? , is it because they wanted to prove themselves so they became stronger ? or is it because they were genius that they couldn't adapt with others around them or is it because academic studying doesn't provide enough encouragement and time for creativity ?

What are your comments , guys ?
 

Petrus

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2013
739
We might hear from one source or another that a famous scientist was always humiliated by his teacher when he was a student . We might hear about another who failed school or university but he became an inspiring figure after some years . So why do you think such things happen ? , is it because they wanted to prove themselves so they became stronger ? or is it because they were genius that they couldn't adapt with others around them or is it because academic studying doesn't provide enough encouragement and time for creativity ?

What are your comments , guys ?
Hello ZaidAlyafey,
that is a really good question, what I think is that they had some new 'ide' so they wanted to show their teacher but their teacher probably looked down at them cause they had not alot knowledge about math. Well no one actually know why but this is a crazy guess.

Regards,
 

Bacterius

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 26, 2012
644
Because some people learn better by themselves than with the help of a teacher, and end up following a different learning path, which confuses and frustrates the teacher, causing them to fail their math courses even though they are not bad at math.

It is the same scientist, I believe, who said, everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

I'm not saying I'm a genius or anything (I am not) but whenever I read up on something more advanced back in high school which I found interesting or helpful, my math teachers would always not know what to tell me besides "no, just use this way we learnt". I did not really find that useful and carried on with my own learning in my own time. Too many so-called math teachers confuse math with arithmetic, or maybe that is just the educational curriculum which sucks.

You'll notice this happens most often in high school, not so much tertiary education.
 

tkhunny

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 27, 2012
267
I have little doubt that our society has lost much "genius" because someone discouraged a capable student, somewhere along the way.

I have little doubt that our society has retained much "genius", even with the best efforts of our society to discourage it, because no one managed to discourage some particular capable student.

Personally, I spent the ages of 13-15 under oppressive tyranny in the public schools. I was substantially discouraged. The very next year, though, I decided I would take care of that problem and succeed anyway. The tyranny didn't end. I simply exceeded it.

Human survival is a funny thing. Some fail at the slightest hint of difficulty. Others survive massive obstacles.
 

ZaidAlyafey

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 17, 2013
1,667
It is the same scientist, I believe, who said, everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Well said .

Too many so-called math teachers confuse math with arithmetic, ...
I can't agree more .

At some universities , sadly , you have to distinguish between looking for grades and learning . It becomes so difficult to focus on the GPA and at the same time read what you like. Some exams are becoming just pure computations , the more you train yourself the better grades you get. Some teachers think they are smart and don't want students to think about elegant ideas because they think they are genius , and the student is the one who pays .

- - - Updated - - -

Human survival is a funny thing. Some fail at the slightest hint of difficulty. Others survive massive obstacles.
It isn't just funny , it is surprising . Those who don't fight don't deserve to continue . It happened so much that those with once thought to be stupid ideas became respectable figures because they believed in their ideas and fought to succeed .
 

Fernando Revilla

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 29, 2012
661
We might hear from one source or another that a famous scientist was always humiliated by his teacher when he was a student.
Those things do not happen nowadays at least over here. On the contrary, as a consequence of false progressive ideas of some ruling classes, teachers are usually humillated by their students.
 

Jameson

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,043
I will try not to rant on and on here, because education is something I've worked in briefly and thought about quite a bit. A huge problem is exactly what Fernando Revilla mentioned - teachers have almost no respect or authority in the classroom. If the teacher can't control the class for a lesson then even for a perfect teacher there would be issues. Teachers shouldn't be afraid of students but I fear that is pretty common - not being afraid of the actual kids but what can happen a very determined parent gets upset. For this reason I could not teach in a public school right now, although I really respect the profession.

If we here about a genius (whatever that means exactly) that had problems in school or even failed miserably then I don't automatically think that it was due to the educational system beating them down. It might be that someone has all of the right tools but isn't old enough or experienced enough to use them in the way they need to. It might be that it took reaching a certain topic to spark the fire for studying more. In fact the geniuses that are discouraged must be those who aren't excelling immediately, since those who are would be less likely to have problems with teachers.

I think the question to ask is how do we recognize someone's true potential who doesn't have it all together immediately?
 

MarkFL

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 24, 2012
13,775
Bill Gates...genius and Harvard drop-out.

In his case it was simply a decision to devote his time to running Microsoft. I understand that Harvard has since awarded him with an honorary degree.
 

Jameson

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,043
I think that Bill Gates is a great example where genius combined with perfect timing in history. On top of being brilliant he had access to technology that almost no one his age had at the time and was able to use his talent for programming to make the most of the situation. I'm not saying that his story isn't incredible but I do think that his genius needed a certain environment to flourish and like I wrote in my previous post I wonder about the brilliant minds who live among us that don't find something that focuses their gifts in a productive way.

The lesson from Gates and college isn't that college is a waste of time or that the way to be successful is to not go to one, but that going to college "just because" is not the point. Education is never a bad thing to have, but I think a lot of 18-year-olds can be tricked into paying a lot of money to study something that might not be very useful after graduating. I'm so happy I made it through my undergrad studies with no debt.

What do you all think about the quality of college educations in general where you live? What is the main reason people decide to study at college or in a university there?
 

Ackbach

Indicium Physicus
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,193
Bill Gates...genius and Harvard drop-out.

In his case it was simply a decision to devote his time to running Microsoft. I understand that Harvard has since awarded him with an honorary degree.
I think that Bill Gates is a great example where genius combined with perfect timing in history. On top of being brilliant he had access to technology that almost no one his age had at the time and was able to use his talent for programming to make the most of the situation. I'm not saying that his story isn't incredible but I do think that his genius needed a certain environment to flourish and like I wrote in my previous post I wonder about the brilliant minds who live among us that don't find something that focuses their gifts in a productive way.

The lesson from Gates and college isn't that college is a waste of time or that the way to be successful is to not go to one, but that going to college "just because" is not the point. Education is never a bad thing to have, but I think a lot of 18-year-olds can be tricked into paying a lot of money to study something that might not be very useful after graduating. I'm so happy I made it through my undergrad studies with no debt.

What do you all think about the quality of college educations in general where you live? What is the main reason people decide to study at college or in a university there?
Considering that Bill Gates is listed as someone who did well in Math 55, he essentially has a Bachelor's of Science in Mathematics from Harvard anyway.
 

ZaidAlyafey

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 17, 2013
1,667
What do you all think about the quality of college educations in general where you live? What is the main reason people decide to study at college or in a university there?
I don't know whether I am thinking differently or I am completely wrong but I am finding so much difficulty coping with the academic education. Most of the time I feel that I am forced to study things which I think are useless for me in the future . I am hoping for an academic education that makes things a little bit easier and gives students a chance to decide what to learn. At my university attendance is mandatory which I don't really like. Undergraduate research seems rare and creativity is hidden behind looking for high GPA . I wish I could take some higher courses but I have to wait a semester or two to finish the prerequisites . I am totally depressed because of that .
 

Ackbach

Indicium Physicus
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,193
I don't know whether I am thinking differently or I am completely wrong but I am finding so much difficulty coping with the academic education. Most of the time I feel that I am forced to study things which I think are useless for me in the future . I am hoping for an academic education that makes things a little bit easier and gives students a chance to decide what to learn. At my university attendance is mandatory which I don't really like. Undergraduate research seems rare and creativity is hidden behind looking for high GPA . I wish I could take some higher courses but I have to wait a semester or two to finish the prerequisites . I am totally depressed because of that .
Have you thought of doing CLEP? You can do a significant portion of an undergraduate degree by studying for and taking CLEP tests. The catch is that not all colleges and universities accept the credit. But it does let you study at your own pace and as deep as you want. Additionally, it's much cheaper than college.
 

ZaidAlyafey

Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
Jan 17, 2013
1,667
Have you thought of doing CLEP? You can do a significant portion of an undergraduate degree by studying for and taking CLEP tests. The catch is that not all colleges and universities accept the credit. But it does let you study at your own pace and as deep as you want. Additionally, it's much cheaper than college.
I never heard of that , I don't think it is available in my country .
 

Ackbach

Indicium Physicus
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,193
I never heard of that , I don't think it is available in my country .
CLEP stands for College Level Examination Program. It lets you study at your own pace, take a CLEP test, and essentially test out of courses, assuming the university or college from which you want to graduate will accept the credits. See if there is a similar program in your country. Maybe google "testing out of college classes".
 

Petrus

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2013
739
CLEP stands for College Level Examination Program. It lets you study at your own pace, take a CLEP test, and essentially test out of courses, assuming the university or college from which you want to graduate will accept the credits. See if there is a similar program in your country. Maybe google "testing out of college classes".
Hello Ackbach,
If I understand correctly, do they not call that distance course?

Regards,
 

Jameson

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 26, 2012
4,043
Hello Ackbach,
If I understand correctly, do they not call that distance course?

Regards,
They are different than distance courses. CLEP, which might be called something different depending on the place, is a chance to take a final exam for a course and receive credit for the course, but not actually do the course. Imagine a time when you thought you knew everything already on the first day - well with this option you can prove that you do and save a lot of time potentially.

Distance courses are when you don't study at the main university campus, which most likely means doing them online.
 

agentmulder

Active member
Feb 9, 2012
33
I think that Bill Gates is a great example where genius combined with perfect timing in history. On top of being brilliant he had access to technology that almost no one his age had at the time and was able to use his talent for programming to make the most of the situation. I'm not saying that his story isn't incredible but I do think that his genius needed a certain environment to flourish and like I wrote in my previous post I wonder about the brilliant minds who live among us that don't find something that focuses their gifts in a productive way.

The lesson from Gates and college isn't that college is a waste of time or that the way to be successful is to not go to one, but that going to college "just because" is not the point. Education is never a bad thing to have, but I think a lot of 18-year-olds can be tricked into paying a lot of money to study something that might not be very useful after graduating. I'm so happy I made it through my undergrad studies with no debt.

What do you all think about the quality of college educations in general where you live? What is the main reason people decide to study at college or in a university there?
[Begin Rant] I think that the quality of education is too low for the amount of money a college makes from every student. They charge you as much as they can get away with but they give you as less services as they think they can get away with and whenever a course offers a bit more than

1) A room
2) A professor
3) The opportunity to compete with your 'peers'

There is an extra charge. 3) Is particularly annoying to me because your 'peer' becomes any one of your classmates, as long as they pay the bill.

You have to pay for your books (extremely expensive) , lab manuals , writing materials, cafeteria food (usually nasty and overpriced) etc.

Really annoying to me is... When you are ready to graduate and be 'awarded' your degree, after they have fleeced you as much as possible, you still have to pay for your gown and cap.

Consider a student attending a public 2 year college with 3000 U.S. tuition per year. That's not all the money the college is making from that student as regards to tuition. They get about 7500 more from the federal government and about 3000 more from the state government. Every year you (sucker) are worth about 13000 income to them so the ideal situation for 'them' is for you to stay there as long as possible. They will never admit this because it's dishonest and unethical but I don't know anyone who got a 2 year degree in exactly 2 years, it happens but it's rare rather than the norm and they present it as a two year commitment on your part when in fact in most cases it will require more than 2 years devotion on your part. Most people have to repeat courses along the way and this inflates the total cost of their education. That means they are making more money from each customer, they want to keep you there as much as possible, a willing doner with 'them' erched on top of you like vultures. [End Rant]

To summarise my opinions...

1) The average student thinks they are paying x amount of dollars for the education received. That's incorrect, they actually pay closer to 4x. If this was well known among the general public i'm sure there would be considerable outrage when comparing total fees with services rendered. To add injury to insult, colleges are always crying for more money and incease tuition whenever they can.

2) The colleges are run more like a business instead of altruistic institutions of learning... it should be the other way around.

3) Hundreds of students enroll in remedial math classes each semester at most community colleges. About half of them repeat remediation, paying more tuition and further delaying the completion of the '2 year' degree. A significant percentage of students repeat remediatin more than once. The professors have a joke about that, they call it

'THE COTTAGE INDUSTRY'

I worked at a 2 year college for 9 years so i've seen these things from the inside. I'm guessing the situation is not too different across the U.S.

IMHO when you take any college course, if you are NOT already an expert in the material you will get a low grade if you pass, there is a good chance you will not pass at all or will be given an unsatisfactory grade like D not satisfying the next prerequisite. The amount of material you have to learn in 1 semester is insane compared to the time you have available to learn it. They've got this 'fleecing' thing figured out 1000 ways because they've been at it a long time.

:)
 
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mathmaniac

Active member
Mar 4, 2013
188
We might hear from one source or another that a famous scientist was always humiliated by his teacher when he was a student . We might hear about another who failed school or university but he became an inspiring figure after some years . So why do you think such things happen ?
What are your comments , guys ?
I think it is beacause the famous scientist wanted to do science in the direction he/she was puzzling about and he/she might not have been bothered by GRADES.They might have deviated from the syllabus and probably thats why they have failed.And everyone might have teased them.
But actually they were winning!...by satisfying their interests and maybe thats why they became great.Because People are most good at what they are most good at.

is it because they wanted to prove themselves so they became stronger ? or is it because they were genius that they couldn't adapt with others around them or is it because academic studying doesn't provide enough encouragement and time for creativity ?
True..

And I think nowadays the Internet is becoming the best ground to learn than any school...

So those famous scientists can drop out of schools without any worries...

I am totally depressed because of that .
Don't worry.You know you are doing good.(We also know that)
 
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