Gravitational Model of Tides: Earth and Sun Potential Addition

In summary: And it's not like the journal was swamped with papers, the way *Physical Review* is swamped now. So I wonder...In summary, the conversation discusses the use of the gravitational model to describe tides and whether it is correct to simply add the tide potentials due to Earth and the Sun. The conversation also mentions conflicting papers from 1976 and 1981, with Avsyuk's reasoning being contradicted by Sitnik and Khlystov. The conversation ends with the speaker asking for clarification on the different equations used to calculate the acceleration of M0 in the mobile reference frame of the earth-moon barycenter.
  • #1
frogeraie
2
0
I have a question about the gravitational model used to describe tides:
Is it correct to simply add the tide potentials respectively due to Earth and sun as most people do? (see for instance a good example of this approach in Eq 9 of: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0701/0701301v1.pdf).
The superposition principle, at first, almost convinced me not to go further... when I came across this 1976 paper: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1977SvAL...3...96A,
which is then contradicted in 1981 by:
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1981SvAL...7..281S/0000282.000.html.
Avsyuk's reasoning is appealing:
to calculate the acceleration a0 of M0 in the inertial coordinate system of the three bodies he adds the acceleration a1 of M0 in the mobile system of the earth-moon barycenter to the acceleration a2 of this barycenter with respect to the earth-moon-sun reference system.
Sitnik and Khlystov have the same expression for a2 (Eq. 6) but they differ for a1. I have a hard time to understand their second term in (8). What is M0 acceleration in the mobile refrerence frame of the earth-moon barycenter? Is it Sitnik and Khlystov's Eq.8 or F3/M0 as Avsyuk wants or, as I would prefer, (F1+F3)/M0?
Does someone would care to ponder a bit on these questions? Thanks!
 
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  • #2
frogeraie said:
I have a question about the gravitational model used to describe tides:
Is it correct to simply add the tide potentials respectively due to Earth and sun as most people do?
Yes.

I came across this 1976 paper. Avsyuk's reasoning is appealing: to calculate the acceleration a0 of M0 in the inertial coordinate system of the three bodies he adds the acceleration a1 of M0 in the mobile system of the earth-moon barycenter to the acceleration a2 of this barycenter with respect to the earth-moon-sun reference system.
A word of advice on scientific papers from the old Soviet Union: Read them with a grain of salt. Some of that old Soviet science was very, very good. KAM theory, for example. On the other hand, some of it was very, very bad. Lysenkoism, for example. Anything that proved that those stupid capitalists were wrong was good science. Look at it this way: It took 4 years to publish a paper (Sitnik & Khlystov) that showed Avsyuk's reasoning was wrong; that he made what was essentially a stupid math error.
 

Related to Gravitational Model of Tides: Earth and Sun Potential Addition

1. How does the gravitational model of tides explain the phenomenon of high and low tides?

The gravitational model of tides explains that the gravitational pull of the moon and sun on the Earth's oceans creates bulges in the ocean's surface, causing high and low tides. As the Earth rotates, these bulges move across the surface, resulting in two high tides and two low tides each day.

2. How do the positions of the Earth, moon, and sun affect the tides?

The gravitational model of tides states that the positions of the Earth, moon, and sun in relation to each other directly impact the tides. When the moon is aligned with the sun and Earth, during a full or new moon, the gravitational pull is strongest and results in higher high tides and lower low tides, known as spring tides. When the moon and sun are at a right angle to each other, during a first or third quarter moon, the gravitational pull is weaker and results in lower high tides and higher low tides, known as neap tides.

3. Can the gravitational model of tides be applied to other bodies in our solar system?

Yes, the gravitational model of tides can be applied to other bodies in our solar system, such as planets with moons. Just like how the moon's gravitational pull affects Earth's tides, a planet's moons can create tides on its surface.

4. How does the gravitational force of the sun compare to the moon's effect on tides?

The gravitational force of the sun is much larger than that of the moon, as the sun's mass is significantly greater. However, the moon's closer proximity to Earth results in a stronger gravitational pull on the Earth's oceans, making it the primary cause of tides.

5. How has our understanding of the gravitational model of tides evolved over time?

Our understanding of the gravitational model of tides has evolved significantly over time. In ancient times, the tides were often attributed to mystical or supernatural forces. It wasn't until the 17th century that Sir Isaac Newton proposed the theory of universal gravitation, which explained the gravitational pull of the moon on Earth's tides. Since then, advancements in technology and scientific research have allowed us to further understand and refine our understanding of the gravitational model of tides.

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