GR index gymnastics -- Have I misunderstood something or typo?

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In summary, the conversation discusses a physics student's confusion about a professor's claim regarding the energy momentum tensor in the context of deriving the Friedmann equations. The student provides their own understanding of the tensor and asks for clarification. Through further discussion, it is determined that the professor may have been using a different metric or implicitly referring to taking the trace of the Einstein Field Equation. The possibility of using a tetrad or comoving coordinates is also mentioned.
  • #1
Jonsson
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Hello there,

I am learning GR and in the cosmology chapter, we are using the metric
$$
ds^2 = - dt^2 + a^2(t) \left[ \frac{dr^2}{1 - \kappa r^2} + r^2 d \Omega \right].
$$

Suppose now that ##U^\mu = (1,0,0,0)## and the energy momentum tensor is
$$
T_{\mu \nu} = (\rho + p)U_\mu U_\nu + p g_{\mu \nu}.
$$

My professors says that this implies ##T^{\mu \nu} = \mathrm{diag}(\rho, p,p,p)##. Surely this is a typo, or is it just me that don't understand how to raise indecies? Thanks
 
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  • #2
Jonsson said:
is it just me that don't understand how to raise indecies?

What do you get when you try to raise the indexes on ##T_{\mu \nu}##?
 
  • #3
PeterDonis said:
What do you get when you try to raise the indexes on ##T_{\mu \nu}##?

$$
T^{\mu \nu} = g^{\mu \rho}g^{\nu \sigma} T_{\rho \sigma} = g^{\mu \rho}g^{\nu \sigma}\left[(\rho + p)U_\rho U_\sigma + pg_{\rho \sigma} \right] = (\rho + p)U^\mu U^\nu + p g^{\mu \nu} =
\begin{bmatrix}
\rho + p &0&0&0\\
0&0&0&0\\
0&0&0&0\\
0&0&0&0
\end{bmatrix}^{\mu \nu} +
\begin{bmatrix}
-p &0&0&0\\
0&p\frac{1 - \kappa r^2}{a^2}&0&0\\
0&0&p \frac{1}{a^2r^2}&0\\
0&0&0&p \frac{1}{a^2r^2\sin^2\theta}
\end{bmatrix}^{\mu \nu}
=
\begin{bmatrix}
\rho &0&0&0\\
0&p\frac{1 - \kappa r^2}{a^2}&0&0\\
0&0&p \frac{1}{a^2r^2}&0\\
0&0&0&p \frac{1}{a^2r^2\sin^2\theta}
\end{bmatrix}^{\mu \nu} \neq \mathrm{diag}(\rho,p,p,p)^{\mu \nu}
$$
Is this correct, or is my professor right and I wrong?
 
  • #4
Jonsson said:
Is this correct, or is my professor right and I wrong?

You are right if you use the metric you wrote down. I suspect, though, that your professor was implicitly using a different metric when he made his claim--one that is only valid in a small patch of spacetime around a given event. Are you familiar with the concept of local inertial coordinates in GR?
 
  • #5
Inertial coordinates are free fall coordinates, the coordinates of a freely falling observer?

This is in the context of deriblant the Friedmann equations, so surely means comoving coordinates?
 
  • #6
Jonsson said:
Inertial coordinates are free fall coordinates, the coordinates of a freely falling observer?

Local inertial coordinates are coordinates in which a chosen free-fall observer is at rest, and in which the metric is the Minkowski metric. But in a curved spacetime, such coordinates can only cover a small patch of spacetime centered on some particular event. They are not the same as global comoving coordinates.
 
  • #7
This is in the context of deriving the Friedmann equations, so surely we are using comoving coordinates?
 
  • #8
Jonsson said:
This is in the context of deriving the Friedmann equations, so surely we are using comoving coordinates?

Can you give more specific references, such as the textbook you are using?
 
  • #9
Jonsson said:
This is in the context of deriving the Friedmann equations, so surely we are using comoving coordinates?

As a general comment, the Friedmann equations are usually derived by looking at the 0-0 component of the Einstein Field Equation (which doesn't bring in the terms involving ##p## that you are finding to differ from your professor's claim), and the trace of the Einstein Field Equation--which makes all of the extra factors involving the metric coefficients cancel out. So it's also possible that your professor was implicitly referring to taking the trace when he talked about ##\mathrm{diag}(\rho, p, p, p)##.
 
  • #10
Carroll -- Spacetime and geometry. Page 333
 
  • #11
Jonsson said:
Carroll -- Spacetime and geometry. Page 333

I don't have the actual book, but I'm familiar with the online lecture notes of his that the book was based on. Equation (8.18) in Chapter 8 of those notes says:

$$
T^\mu{}_\nu = \mathrm{diag} \left( - \rho, p, p, p \right)
$$

Notice two key differences: only one index is raised, and the sign of ##\rho## is flipped. Could this have been what your professor was actually saying?
 
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  • #12
PeterDonis said:
I don't have the actual book, but I'm familiar with the online lecture notes of his that the book was based on. Equation (8.18) in Chapter 8 of those notes says:

$$
T^\mu{}_\nu = \mathrm{diag} \left( - \rho, p, p, p \right)
$$

Notice two key differences: only one index is raised, and the sign of ##\rho## is flipped. Could this have been what your professor was actually saying?

No, then I wouldn't have needed to ask. Thank you for your help :)
 
  • #13
It is possible your professor is implicitly using a tetrad, i.e., an orthonormal basis, instead of a coordinate basis.

Edit: Also, note that comoving coordinates are not free fall coordinates. Comoving observers in a local inertial coordinate frame will move relative to each other at a velocity proportional to the (comoving) distance between them, i.e., Hubble's law.
 
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Related to GR index gymnastics -- Have I misunderstood something or typo?

1. What is "GR index gymnastics"?

"GR index gymnastics" is a term used in physics to describe the calculations and manipulations involved in measuring the curvature of spacetime using the General Relativity (GR) index.

2. How is the GR index used in gymnastics?

The GR index is not related to gymnastics in the traditional sense. It is a mathematical tool used in physics to analyze the curvature of spacetime in Einstein's theory of General Relativity.

3. Can I use the GR index in other areas of science?

The GR index is primarily used in the field of physics, specifically in General Relativity. However, some principles of General Relativity have also been applied in other fields such as astrophysics and cosmology.

4. What is the purpose of the GR index gymnastics calculations?

The GR index gymnastics calculations are used to determine the curvature of spacetime, which is a fundamental concept in Einstein's theory of General Relativity. This allows us to better understand the nature of gravity and its effects on the universe.

5. Are there any common misunderstandings about GR index gymnastics?

One common misunderstanding is that the GR index is a measure of curvature itself, but it is actually a mathematical tool used to calculate the curvature. Additionally, the calculations involved can be complex and may be misunderstood by those without a strong background in physics and mathematics.

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