Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers?

In summary, Goodstein's theorem is a theorem about natural numbers that cannot be proved from the standard axioms of natural numbers. However, it can be proved from a more powerful axiom system that includes transfinite numbers. It is unclear if it can be proved from a natural axiom system more powerful than Peano axioms but without transfinite numbers. Some believe it is possible, but it has not been confirmed.
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Demystifier
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It is known that the Goodstein theorem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodstein's_theorem
which is a theorem about natural numbers, cannot be proved from the standard axioms of natural numbers, that is Peano axioms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms .

It is also known that Goodstein theorem can be proved from a more powerful axiom system which includes transfinite numbers.

My question is: Can Goodstein theorem be proved from a natural axiom system more powerful than Peano axioms, but without transfinite numbers?

I expect that it can. More precisely, I suspect that Peano axioms cannot prove the Goodstein theorem because these axioms do not contain an axiomatization of powers (but only of addition and multiplication). If one would add appropriate natural axioms for powers (similar to those for addition and multiplication), I expect that then one could prove the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers.

Can someone confirm or reject my expectations?
 
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  • #2
I'm not sure. Certainly the theory PA + "all Goodstein sequences terminate" proves Goodstein's theorem without mentioning transfinite numbers, but it's probably not what you would consider a "natural" axiom system. I can state with certainty that adding axioms for exponents would not enable you to prove anything not already provable in PA, because exponentiation can be defined in terms of addition and multiplication, and its basic properties are provable theorems. Indeed, were this not the case, it would be impossible to even state Goodstein's theorem in the language of PA.
 
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Thanks for a convincing answer. I thought that exponentiation might not be definable in PA in terms of multiplication in the same sense in which, in Presburger arithmetic, multiplication is not definable in terms of addition. But as you said, Goodstein theorem can be stated in PA, which means that exponentiation must be definable.
 

Related to Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers?

1. What is the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers?

The Goodstein theorem is a mathematical statement that deals with the properties of natural numbers. The theorem states that every terminating sequence of natural numbers eventually reaches 0 after a certain number of iterations. This theorem was originally formulated using transfinite numbers, but later it was proven that the theorem can also be proved without using these numbers.

2. How is the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers different from the original theorem?

The main difference between the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers and the original theorem is that the latter uses infinite numbers to prove its validity. However, the former uses only finite numbers and relies on different mathematical techniques to prove the same result. This makes the theorem more accessible and easier to understand for non-mathematicians.

3. What are the implications of proving the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers?

The implications of proving the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers are twofold. Firstly, it shows that the original proof of the theorem using transfinite numbers was not necessary and a simpler proof exists. Secondly, it highlights the power of alternative mathematical techniques and opens up new avenues for further research in this area.

4. Are there any limitations to the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers?

Yes, there are limitations to the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers. One major limitation is that it only applies to terminating sequences of natural numbers. This means that it cannot be used to prove the same result for non-terminating sequences. Additionally, the proof of the theorem without transfinite numbers is not as generalizable as the original proof using infinite numbers.

5. What are some real-world applications of the Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers?

The Goodstein theorem without transfinite numbers has several applications in computer science and theoretical physics. In computer science, the theorem can be used to analyze the complexity of algorithms and in theoretical physics, it can help in understanding the properties of space and time. Additionally, the theorem also has implications in number theory and the study of mathematical sequences.

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