Does molecular flatness affect friction differently?

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of friction between two surfaces. The first surface is completely flat and the second surface is slightly uneven. The object being used in both cases is a block. The question is posed whether the completely flat surface will have more friction, to which the response is that the more uneven surface will produce more friction due to the valleys providing more opportunities for molecules to get caught. The conversation also delves into the molecular level explanation for friction and the observed result that friction depends more on normal load than contact area. Additional resources on this topic are also mentioned.
  • #1
hav0c
58
0
We have two surfaces
One is completely flat even on molecular scale (hypothetically)
the other is a little uneven (but still much less than actual values, ill go with the hills and valleys view)
The object used is completely flat for both case( a block)will the completely flat surface have more friction?
i think it would
(edit: both the surfaces are made up of the same substance)
 
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  • #2
is this a stupid question?
 
  • #3
It's certainly not a stupid question, this is typically how we're taught to think of friction in a general physics class. There's a bit more to it than simply shape, but the more uneven surface should produce more friction when you slide a block across. The 'valleys' allow for places for the block's molecules to get caught and produce more friction.
 
  • #4
I thought friction between apparently smooth surfaces was largely to do with attraction at the molecular level. You're constantly having to break weak bonds that spontaneously form. That is the answer offered at http://library.thinkquest.org/C006300/data/seven3_1.htm and at http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_causes_friction_and_why_does_it_occur.
Whether it's nubs or bonds, the hard part is explaining why it depends almost exclusively on normal load and hardly at all on contact area. I suppose the mean separation of the surfaces would be greater with a larger area, but it's far from obvious that this leads to the observed result.
But see also http://lima.osu.edu/academics/physics/Student%20Contributions/What%20is%20friction.html
 
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1. What is friction?

Friction is a force that opposes the motion of an object when it comes into contact with a surface.

2. How does friction occur on a flat surface?

Friction on a flat surface occurs when the molecules of two surfaces come into contact and resist each other's motion.

3. What factors affect the amount of friction on a flat surface?

The amount of friction on a flat surface is affected by the type of material, the weight of the object, and the roughness of the surface.

4. How can friction on a flat surface be reduced?

Friction on a flat surface can be reduced by using lubricants, such as oil or grease, between the surfaces or by using smoother surfaces.

5. What are the practical applications of understanding friction on a flat surface?

Understanding friction on a flat surface is important in many industries, such as transportation, manufacturing, and sports, as it can affect the efficiency and performance of objects in motion.

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