Finding a Cure: Examining Disease Challenges

[Winzer]

When it comes to a cure, where are we with these diseases? What are the challenges with coming up with a cure?

 

[WarPhalange]

Hold on. Give me 5 more minutes.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

AIDS is a disease caused by a virus (HIV, human immunodeficiency virus) and like all viral diseases does not yet have a cure. We do have treatments for AIDS which can halt the progression of the disease, but there are many problems with these treatments. First, they are very expensive, which prohibits their use in areas where AIDS is most prevalent. Second, AIDS mutates very quickly which allows it to relatively quickly become resistant to new HIV drugs.

Despite not having cures for viral diseases, viral diseases can be eliminated via preventive measures, for example, vaccines. Unfortunately, all efforts to create an HIV vaccine has failed so far (possibly because the virus can mutate to evade the effects of vaccination).

 

[baywax]

When it comes to a cure, where are we with these diseases? What are the challenges with coming up with a cure?

Working as the sole biomedical illustrator with a group of provincial cancer treatment and research centres has opened my eyes to the "cancer cure" industry. I illustrated several treatments coming through my office that were very promising but were never funded with the researcher often being ignored or asked to leave the agency. We've seen 250 billion dollars spent on research alone in North America and Europe and we haven't gone beyond Madame Curie's radiation experiments or the chemotherapy tissue baths of the pharmaceutical companies in search of an end to this suffering. So far, the most effective "cure for cancer" has been the death of the patient.

I think that on an individual basis, stopping cancerous growth and/or the depletion of the immune system (HIV) can be initiated through the attitudes and morale of the patient. This is a tough call since the person we're asking to have a bright and sunny attitude is the one facing the illness and its symptoms. But, with this sort of attitude the patient is much better equipped to fight the disease, simply because their immune system is pumped up by the secretion of the hormones that are produced by a specifically good outlook.

 

[fluidistic]

I think that on an individual basis, stopping cancerous growth and/or the depletion of the immune system (HIV) can be initiated through the attitudes and morale of the patient. This is a tough call since the person we're asking to have a bright and sunny attitude is the one facing the illness and its symptoms. But, with this sort of attitude the patient is much better equipped to fight the disease, simply because their immune system is pumped up by the secretion of the hormones that are produced by a specifically good outlook.

Wouldn't a positive attitude also favor cell divisions and so cancer? Just curious.

 

[Monique]

But, with this sort of attitude the patient is much better equipped to fight the disease, simply because their immune system is pumped up by the secretion of the hormones that are produced by a specifically good outlook.

Is there any evidence that this is true? You would need a tightly controlled study to be able to prove such a point.

 

[Monique]

Wouldn't a positive attitude also favor cell divisions and so cancer? Just curious.

Let's first find out whether the first claim is true, before postulating such a question.

 

[baywax]

Is there any evidence that this is true? You would need a tightly controlled study to be able to prove such a point.

There have been studies of a controlled nature that show how an improved state of mind results in a 20 percent increase in cancer survival.

I'm searching now...

Mindfulness Relaxation Compared With Relaxing Music and Standard Symptom Management Education in Treating Patients Who Are Undergoing Chemotherapy For Newly Diagnosed Solid Tumors

Verified by National Cancer Institute (NCI), December 2008

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00086762


Relaxation and imagery in the treatment of breast cancer.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1835041

This program started agency wide. The 20 percent less deaths I associated with this technique was a stat from 1997 after a 5 year clinical trial. The program is still in progress.

http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/RS/FraserValleyCentre/support.htm

 

[Proton Soup]

just an anecdote, but a friend who works as an oncology nurse tells me that almost everyone with cancer does not get cured. it almost always returns. so it's mostly a managed disease, like AIDS.

there is also the issue that there are so many different types of cancers, with different treatments for each.

 

[baywax]

Wouldn't a positive attitude also favor cell divisions and so cancer? Just curious.

Malignant and metastatic cell division will take place as long as it isn't challenged by an immune system or stopped by another means such as apoptosis or degenerating telomeres. Cancer is a mutation where apoptosis is ceased and the degeneration of the telomeres is halted in the cell carrying the mutation.

The immune system is compromised by stress such as the news of getting cancer, white lab coats pronouncing the arrival of your death in 3 weeks, fluorescent lighting, sterile surroundings, lack of human contact... the list goes on.

Treating the body and mind (not really separate) well helps boost the immune system thus, providing an ally in the bodies fight to control and eliminate the errant, mutated cells.
Radiation tends to multiply the problem by creating radiation resistant cells, causing more stress, pain and exasperating the mutated cells so that they actually become more resilient and aggressive. Surgery is a barbaric solution to any tumour with the exception of melanoma (skin legions and growths) because any mutant cell that escapes into the blood stream can lodge and continue to divide elsewhere... thus becoming "brain cancer" or other.

 

[baywax]

just an anecdote, but a friend who works as an oncology nurse tells me that almost everyone with cancer does not get cured. it almost always returns. so it's mostly a managed disease, like AIDS.

No one knows that for sure. Like I said you and I have probably developed cancer during our lives then had our immune system deal with the condition without our knowledge.

In fact, they are finding that women who undergo mammography are diagnosed too hastily because many of the tiny legions and tumours in their breasts could well be taken care of by their own immune system. Then they go on to these trying treatments that stress the living **** out of them and things get worse from there on.

 

[Proton Soup]

No one knows that for sure. Like I said you and I have probably developed cancer during our lives then had our immune system deal with the condition without our knowledge.

In fact, they are finding that women who undergo mammography are diagnosed too hastily because many of the tiny legions and tumours in their breasts could well be taken care of by their own immune system. Then they go on to these trying treatments that stress the living **** out of them and things get worse from there on.

this isn't really saying anything except that people under high stress have lower life expectancy than people under low stress. i don't think there's anything new here. or that it makes a difference if one has cancer or not.

 

[baywax]

this isn't really saying anything except that people under high stress have lower life expectancy than people under low stress. i don't think there's anything new here. or that it makes a difference if one has cancer or not.

Its new in terms of the last 60 years. All the 2nd world war Vets that came home with shell shock and PTSS were given a weeks worth of morphine then sent home, no questions asked. Today there is a lot more interest/money/time/dontations going into toning down the post traumatic stress syndrome in Vets to help with their quality of life.

Plus its a major break through just during the last 3 months to realize that the woman being diagnosed with breast ca may not need treatment as long as their stress levels are kept at a minimum and their immune system is in good shape. Nothing new?

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Certainly the immune system can be very helpful in dealing with cells that divide uncontrollably, but one of the hallmarks of cancer is resistance to the immune response. For example, most cancer cells develop a resistance to apoptosis (as mentioned by baywax) which renders them resistant to certain immune responses (e.g. from cytotoxic t-cells). Furthermore, cancer cells often downregulate the expression of MHC proteins and other immunological markers to evade detection by the body's immune system.

There are certainly going to be some cases of cancer where boosting the body's immune system (through any number of means, phamacologically or otherwise) can be very helpful in battling a cancer. There will also be many cases, however, where the cancer cannot be battled effectively by the body's own immune system and immunotherapy will not be helpful at all.

Although I am not a doctor, I would also contest the assertions that surgery leads to metastasis and that radiation therapy makes cancer more aggressive.

Anyway, one major challenge with treating cancer is that cancer is not one disease. Cancer can affect a number of different tissue types which all pose unique challenges in the progression and treatment of the disease. Furthermore, even among classes of similar cancers, every cancer in every individual is unique. Thus, fighting cancer requires a number of different strategies which may work for some cancers but not for others. Thus, we shouldn't necessarily say that one treatment is superior to another. In some cases, immunotherapy will work best. In other cases, surgery, drugs, radiation, or some combination of therapies may be the best prescription. What onocology really needs is a revolution in DNA sequencing technologies to realize the dream of personalized medicine. With rapid, cheap DNA sequencing available, doctors could quickly identify the exact mutations that make a cancer cell cancerous and choose specific drugs or therapies tailored to that specific cancer.

 

[baywax]

Certainly the immune system can be very helpful in dealing with cells that divide uncontrollably, but one of the hallmarks of cancer is resistance to the immune response. For example, most cancer cells develop a resistance to apoptosis (as mentioned by baywax) which renders them resistant to certain immune responses (e.g. from cytotoxic t-cells). Furthermore, cancer cells often downregulate the expression of MHC proteins and other immunological markers to evade detection by the body's immune system.

There are certainly going to be some cases of cancer where boosting the body's immune system (through any number of means, phamacologically or otherwise) can be very helpful in battling a cancer. There will also be many cases, however, where the cancer cannot be battled effectively by the body's own immune system and immunotherapy will not be helpful at all.

Although I am not a doctor, I would also contest the assertions that surgery leads to metastasis and that radiation therapy makes cancer more aggressive.

Anyway, one major challenge with treating cancer is that cancer is not one disease. Cancer can affect a number of different tissue types which all pose unique challenges in the progression and treatment of the disease. Furthermore, even among classes of similar cancers, every cancer in every individual is unique. Thus, fighting cancer requires a number of different strategies which may work for some cancers but not for others. Thus, we shouldn't necessarily say that one treatment is superior to another. In some cases, immunotherapy will work best. In other cases, surgery, drugs, radiation, or some combination of therapies may be the best prescription. What onocology really needs is a revolution in DNA sequencing technologies to realize the dream of personalized medicine. With rapid, cheap DNA sequencing available, doctors could quickly identify the exact mutations that make a cancer cell cancerous and choose specific drugs or therapies tailored to that specific cancer.

I will agree that laser surgery is the best option for removing a tumour. This is because the cauterizing effect of the laser disallows or at least decreases the risk of cancer cells getting into the blood stream and lodging elsewhere later on.

Radiation:

Certain types of brain cancer cells, called cancer stem cells, help brain tumors to buffer themselves against radiation treatment by activating a "repair switch" that enables them to continue to grow unchecked, researchers at Duke University Medical Center have found.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/54588.phpWhen radiation is coupled with gene therapy... (transfection of specific genes by retrovirus) there is a slight better chance of halting growth and killing a cancerous tumour.

Autophagy or "self eating" is frequently activated in tumor cells treated with chemotherapy or irradiation. Whether autophagy represents a survival mechanism or rather contributes to cell death remains controversial. To address this issue, the role of autophagy in radiosensitive and radioresistant human cancer cell lines in response to gamma-irradiation was examined. We found irradiation-induced accumulation of autophagosomes accompanied by strong mRNA induction of the autophagy-related genes beclin 1, atg3, atg4b, atg4c, atg5, and atg12 in each cell line. Transduction of specific target-siRNAs led to down-regulation of these genes for up to 8 days as shown by reverse transcription-PCR and Western blot analysis. Blockade of each autophagy-related gene was associated with strongly diminished accumulation of autophagosomes after irradiation. As shown by clonogenic survival, the majority of inhibited autophagy-related genes, each alone or combined, resulted in sensitization of resistant carcinoma cells to radiation, whereas untreated resistant cells but not sensitive cells survived better when autophagy was inhibited. Similarly, radiosensitization or the opposite was observed in different sensitive carcinoma cells and upon inhibition of different autophagy genes. Mutant p53 had no effect on accumulation of autophagosomes but slightly increased clonogenic survival, as expected, because mutated p53 protects cells by conferring resistance to apoptosis. In our system, short-time inhibition of autophagy along with radiotherapy lead to enhanced cytotoxicity of radiotherapy in resistant cancer cells.

edit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18316613

(BTW: the P53 gene is the gene responsible for causeing cell death or "apoptosis")Here's an example of how radiation does not work:

Breast cancer stem cells, seem to be obstinate, as scientists have discovered, as they portray a resistance to radiation therapy. As a result, they are extremely// difficult to annihilate. In fact radiation could even increase the growth of these stem cells, warn researchers from the University of California, Los Angeles, who are the first to have suggested this tendency of stem cells that get radiation resistant and render breast cancer treatments futile.

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Breast-Cancer-Stem-Cells-Appear-Resistant-to-Radiation-Therapy-16756-1/Since this thread is about AIDS as well I want to point out a therapy the the late Johnas Salk was working on just before he died. A very close friend worked with him at the S.A.L.K. Institute and although they were not on the same project... they used to sail together... Johnas was around 93 years old at the time.

The premise of his treatment was to fill the blood stream with decoys that looked and "smelled" like T cells. These decoys would attract the HIVirus and they would not gain any mechanical advantage from the decoys or nutrition... then die off.

Another development I haven't heard anything about since was the Magnetic Colloid Cell Separator from Stemcell Technologies... whom I contracted with for a number of years. This device was a simple electromagnet through which blood passed in a tube. The HIV infected T cells in the blood were tagged with anti-bodies that were, in turn, attached to iron magnetic colloid. The magnet simply separated out the infected T-Cells and the blood was HIV free. However, this was a trial run and for now the device is used to separate out Stem Cells for further research.

http://www.bio-medicine.org/biology-products/StemSep-Anti-Phycoertherin-TAC---2-mL-from-StemCell-Technologies--Inc--2059-1/

 

[Proton Soup]

why would a virus need nutrition, or die from lack of it?

 

[baywax]

why would a virus need nutrition, or die from lack of it?

Viruses use amino acids to build new viruses. One example is the Herpes Retrovirus. It shows up as Chicken Pox when you're young then, under large amounts of stress it shows up as Shingles when you're older. A simple way to stop the virus in its tracks is to take L-Lysine, which is an amino acid.

Lysine appears to the virus to be one of the amino acids it needs to build new viruses. When it uses Lysine as a building block, it breaks. Thus, the virual population dwindles.

L-lysine: Active against Herpes

L-lysine, an essential amino acid, has been studied for its ability to reduce the reactivation rate of herpes (Flodin NW 1997; Marcason W 2003). It works by inhibiting the action of L-arginine during viral replication. Proteins within herpes are rich in L-arginine. An altered ratio of L-lysine to L-arginine, in favor of L-lysine, has been studied for its ability to inhibit the virus. While the results of some studies have been mixed, the following studies have shown L-lysine’s ability to inhibit herpes:

In a double-blind, multi-centered, placebo-controlled study evaluating L-lysine for the prevention and treatment of recurrent herpes infection, one group received 1000 mg of L-lysine three times daily for 6 months. This group had significantly fewer outbreaks, less severe symptoms, and more rapid healing. The researchers said that L-lysine was an effective agent for reducing the occurrence, severity, and symptoms of herpes (Griffith RS et al 1987).
In a second prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study, oral intake of L-lysine (1248 mg daily) decreased the recurrence of herpes simplex in people with healthy immunity. A dose of 624 mg per day was not effective. L-lysine may also decrease the severity of symptoms associated with recurrences. Neither dosage shortened healing time (McCune MA et al 1984).
In a double-blind clinical study examining the long-term prophylactic efficacy of L-lysine supplementation for herpes labialis, volunteers who had a history of frequent outbreaks were recruited. The treatment group received daily oral supplements of 1000 mg of L-lysine. The L-lysine treatment group had significantly fewer outbreaks than the control group. Volunteers who were taken off L-lysine generally showed a significant increase in the recurrence of lesions. Data revealed fewer lesions when a person's serum L-lysine concentration exceeded 165 nanomoles per milliliter (nmol/mL) and increased significantly as concentration levels fell below 165 nmol/mL. These results suggest that prophylactic L-lysine may be useful in managing selected cases of recurrent herpes labialis (Thein DJ et al 1984).
Foods rich in L-lysine include legumes, eggs, yogurt, fish, and chicken (Balch PA et al 2000; Jamison JR 2004). Taking L-lysine with vitamin C and bioflavonoids together has been shown to reduce the risk of herpetic outbreaks (Balch PA et al 2000).

http://www.lef.org/protocols/infections/herpes_shingles_02.htm

In the case of Dr. Johnas Salk's theoretical treatment for Aids... the virus is attaching to decoys of T-Cells (white blood cells). So its not a case of starving them. Its a case of robbing them of the mechanicals of the T-Cell where the virus reproduces itself.

 

[jreelawg]

The medicinal uses of trametes versicolor may be very promising in helping fight both cancer, HIV, and lots of other things as well. Compounds derived from it exhibit anti viral, anti tumor, and immune system boosting properties.

You probably don't believe me now, but if you do your research, I think you will be surprised at the awesomeness of this organism. You will wonder why you and your doctor have never heard of it.

 

[Proton Soup]

The medicinal uses of trametes versicolor may be very promising in helping fight both cancer, HIV, and lots of other things as well. Compounds derived from it exhibit anti viral, anti tumor, and immune system boosting properties.

You probably don't believe me now, but if you do your research, I think you will be surprised at the awesomeness of this organism. You will wonder why you and your doctor have never heard of it.

cool, thanks for the heads up. i love these http://images.google.com/images?q=t...sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title" corals.

 

[baywax]

You probably don't believe me now, but if you do your research, I think you will be surprised at the awesomeness of this organism. You will wonder why you and your doctor have never heard of it.

I don't believe or disbelieve you now. It would be helpful if you'd post a link to a study that proves the claim.

 

[jreelawg]

I don't believe or disbelieve you now. It would be helpful if you'd post a link to a study that proves the claim.

Most clinical trials are japanese or chinese, and I'm not sure what is acceptable in PF, but I'll try and find some good links to clinical trials, but it may be a a while.

 

[jreelawg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysaccharide-K

Clinical studies are done using isolated compounds extracted from versicolor including PSK, PSP, CVP, and SPCV each with different effects, and on top of that, there are clinical trials for many different illnesses, so a lot of research needs to be done to get the full scope, but the wiki article above gives you the basic scope of PSP and PSK.

I should point out though, that the scope is not limited to versicolor, there are other polypores like it that are of interest as well, such as Maitaki, reishi, etc. It is an exciting area because even of the species known to be effective, there are compounds to be isolated and studied, there are interactions that are not understood, and there must be many related species containing effective compounds that are yet to be discovered.

 

[baywax]

Dr. Salk's most notable attempt to stop HIV was to develop a vaccine where dead HIVs plug the receptors on T cells which are the favored host of the HIV. This was along the same line of thinking he used to develop the polio vaccination that helped to diminish the polio virus.

With Dr. Salk gone, his research continues at his institute.

http://www.salk.edu/faculty/young.html

 

[Proton Soup]

Salk also had some weird ideas about vitamin C.

 

[baywax]

Not really.

What proof do you have to back up your weird assertion?

 

[lisab]

Salk also had some weird ideas about vitamin C.

Maybe you're thinking of Pauling?

 

[Proton Soup]

Maybe you're thinking of Pauling?

my mistake, it was pauling.