Epistemological Evolution (or the Chicken or the Egg)

That's cute, but it doesn't fit in with the previous discussion at all. Are you trying to make a point?In summary, the conversation mainly focused on the interdependency of epistemology and metaphysics and how they can limit our understanding and ability to answer questions. The concept of a Theory of Everything was also discussed, with one side arguing that it can never truly explain everything while the other side argued that it would provide a fundamental understanding of the universe. The conversation also touched on the idea of materialism and how it relates to a potential TOE. An anecdote about a chicken and an egg was also shared, but it did not contribute to the overall discussion.
  • #1
H Crews
The trouble with epistemology is that it is tightly bound to metaphysics, and vice versa of course. Your epistemology is determined by your metaphysics, and your metaphysics is determined by your epistemology. The result of this indeterdependency is an evolutionary dynamic.

Any particular system of epistemologies is based upon a set of suppositions the violation of which destroys the epistemological system. It becomes incoherent. There is only so much that a particular epistemological system can teach within a given discipline. As an example let us examine the method of producing computer chips. To maintain Moore's Law new methods are periodically required to produce faster chips. The old techniques have either reached their theoritical limit or their cost effectiveness.

The underlying problem with any metaphysics/epistemology is that as its basis, some possibilities are excluded. None can answer all questions, some questions must be denied. When it comes to a Theory of Everything to answer means to become God. We are finite. Accept it. The infinite can not come from the finite. If there were to be a TOE, existence would expend greatly. But then a entirely new set of questions would arrise, which we could not conceive of today.
 
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  • #2
correction

Instead of "existence would expand greatly" it should read our understanding of existence would expand greatly.
 
  • #3
Why are you invoking the concept of infinity, a physical impossibility which gives rise to unrealistic conclusions?
 
  • #4
yes

Infinity is impossible only under current epistemological systems. It may not be under others. Besides what makes you think the universe is merely physical?
 
  • #5


Originally posted by H Crews
Infinity is impossible only under current epistemological systems. It may not be under others. Besides what makes you think the universe is merely physical?

Because a non-physical part of the Universe would have no way of interacting with a physical part, and would thus have no relevance to physical beings like us.

Welcome to the PFs, H Crews. :smile:
 
  • #6
H Crew, I don't think you've fully grasped the concept of a Theory of Everything. You see, no one is trying to explain all natural phenomena with one theory. The ToE is really just an effort to unify the theories of matter and force (QM) with the theory of space and time (GR). Many new discoveries and theories will become possible with this discovery, but it will not explain everything and it's not expected to.
 
  • #7
reply

My mistake. But I hope you can see that it was an honest mistake. TOE would then really be a Theory of the Empirical. If "we" are physical beings then I take it you subscribe to materialism. But another comment would appear that you don't.

Mentant, just a friendly question. Materialism or Not?
 
  • #8
Hm, should I answer that one?
 
  • #9
I do want to comment on the status of the proposed TOE. In scientific monism there are no causes but material ones. If you then provide a complete underpinning for the material causes, haven't you (within scientific monism) explained everything? At least in principle? BTW I don't think the argument of the emergence fans destroys this argument; they seem to me to be making an epistomological argument - what we can know - rather than an ontological one -what exists.
 
  • #10
TOE

The trouble is when do you know you have provided the underpinnings for material causes. For instance Newtonian physics pretty much explained all the known material causes for a couple of centuries, give or take. Then observations were made with new technologies or rare phenomena occurred that couldn't be explained by Newtonian physics. Therefore new physics were required, primarily QM.

The fundamental problem with TOE is that it is unscientific. No theory no matter how comprehensive it might be, can never be known to be universally and eternally applicable to material causes. The best that could be hoped for would be a TOE at least for right now and the forseeable future. The forseeable future might be very short however.
 
  • #11
go ahead I won't tell anyone

Come on now, fess up hypnagogue.
 
  • #12
Perfectly true. No finite theory can ever be proved. The TOE I was talking about was like an ideal case; IF it existed THEN ...
 
  • #13
Originally posted by selfAdjoint
I do want to comment on the status of the proposed TOE. In scientific monism there are no causes but material ones. If you then provide a complete underpinning for the material causes, haven't you (within scientific monism) explained everything? At least in principle?

I'd considered that. It seems to me that you will have explained everything at it's most fundamental level, but things like molecular biology (for example) would not benefit greatly from this understanding. Am I completely mistaken ?
 
  • #14
Originally posted by hypnagogue
Hm, should I answer that one?

I don't know how accurate you'd be. "Devil's Advocate" and Socratic inquiry have played a large role in my current form of debate (as has a long discussion with Manuel_Silvio about "Meta-paradigms", on the thread "I think therefore I am"). Basically, even if I was a die-hard anti-theist, I could debate the theistic side just as strongly as the anti-theistic side. So, though I am currently holding the Materialistic position, it is not (necessarily) my "actual belief", since I don't really have an "actual belief" on such things.
 
  • #15
a chicken and an egg were in bed. the chicken had a satisfied smirk on it's face and was smoking a cigarette. the egg grabbed the sheet, rolled over and said "well, i guess we answered THAT question".
 

1. What is epistemological evolution?

Epistemological evolution refers to the process of how our understanding and knowledge about the world changes and evolves over time. It involves the development of new theories, concepts, and ideas that shape our understanding of reality.

2. What is the relationship between epistemological evolution and the chicken or the egg dilemma?

The chicken or the egg dilemma is a philosophical question that asks which came first, the chicken or the egg. Similarly, epistemological evolution raises questions about the origins of knowledge and how it is acquired. Both revolve around the concept of causality and the interconnectedness of different ideas and concepts.

3. How does epistemological evolution impact scientific research?

Epistemological evolution plays a crucial role in scientific research as it allows scientists to question and challenge existing theories and concepts. This leads to the development of new ideas and hypotheses, which can ultimately lead to breakthrough discoveries and advancements in scientific understanding.

4. Can we ever truly know everything through epistemological evolution?

No, it is not possible to know everything through epistemological evolution. As our understanding of the world evolves, new questions and mysteries arise, leading to an infinite cycle of knowledge acquisition. There will always be more to discover and learn, making it impossible to have complete and absolute knowledge.

5. How does epistemological evolution relate to the concept of truth?

Epistemological evolution challenges the idea of an absolute truth. As our understanding of the world changes, so does our perception of what is true. What we consider to be true today may not be true tomorrow as new information and evidence emerge. Epistemological evolution shows that truth is a constantly evolving concept.

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