Dust free area when working with spectrometer

[Awwtumn]

I want to open up a spectrometer to see how the inside looks like. Is it true that the CCD in spectrometer is more sensitive to dusts than normal camera CCD such that even a small speck of dust can cover the CCD pixels and the user will get holes in the spectrum? The following is example I found in the net:

Whatever, I want to open up one and look inside. If I use a normal air purifier in the room which uses HEPA filter and blower. Would it really diminish dusts in the room or just circulate it?

In Intel, what kind of dusts mitigation do they do for their processors that must need dusts free workplace?

How else would you do make dusts free area? I recall this clear rectangle container with gloves that goes inside with your hands used in handling biohazard materials, what do you call it?

 

[berkeman]

In Intel, what kind of dusts mitigation do they do for their processors that must need dusts free workplace?

https://www.gmplabeling.com/Article...-KnJ3UVSrjOqh6cnX40UYByj-r4c24ooaAkGoEALw_wcB

 

[DaveE]

Would it really diminish dusts in the room or just circulate it?

yes

 

[DaveE]

How else would you do make dusts free area?

You don't need the cleanliness that Intel does in their most advanced fabs. But you do want more than in an average home. Probably the easiest way is to make/get a laminar flow hood with HEPA filters and dress up in clean room gear (gloves, face masks, hair cover, lab coat). You and what you do are probably the biggest risk. You also need to be very careful about cleaning the outside of it before you open it.

Maybe you could just buy a broken one on eBay and not worry about dust?

 

[berkeman]

In Intel, what kind of dusts mitigation do they do for their processors that must need dusts free workplace?

Speaking from experience, it is quite the ordeal to get dressed up in a bunny suit to carefully go into a $1B IC fab clean room. Add some extra pressure because you are there to debug a problem with a $100M IC fab machine that is acting up...

Fun times.

Spoiler

Yes, I did manage to fix it, despite the multiple IC fab engineers hovering over me... Whew!

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/inside-a-state-of-the-art-cleanroom/

 

[anorlunda]

I want to open up a spectrometer to see how the inside looks like.

Is your need to see big enough to justify significant expense and trouble?
What do you hope to gain by looking?

 

[Awwtumn]

Is your need to see big enough to justify significant expense and trouble?
What do you hope to gain by looking?

To learn the secret of secrets.

It costs over $10,000. You can buy the parts at edmund scientific for only less than $500.

So I'm thinking if it's feasible to go into spectrometer business. Imagine you earn $9500 per unit or more.
For CCD in camera. Is there standard software that can just read the output of the CCD? If so, then if you hook this to the CCD directly, then you can read the output of any CCD in any brand of camera or equipments?

 

[anorlunda]

So I'm thinking if it's feasible to go into spectrometer business. Imagine you earn $9500 per unit or more.

You are not going to learn how to build a CCD by simply looking at one with your naked eye. Try it with this photo.

 

[DaveE]

To learn the secret of secrets.

It costs over $10,000. You can buy the parts at edmund scientific for only less than $500.

So I'm thinking if it's feasible to go into spectrometer business. Imagine you earn $9500 per unit or more.
For CCD in camera. Is there standard software that can just read the output of the CCD? If so, then if you hook this to the CCD directly, then you can read the output of any CCD in any brand of camera or equipments?

I worked for many years at a big successful laser manufacturer. We had a broad product line of high end products. This business required optical design and assembly similar to spectrometers. One thing I learned was it isn't too hard to make a crummy laser, or a company that has substandard products. But you'll have a very hard time turning that into a successful business.

At our company that product would have an Optical Engineer, Mechanical Engineer, Electrical Engineer, Software Engineer, Manufacturing Engineer, Marketing Engineer, and a Project/Product Manager just to get it off the ground. Then later you'll need Sales, Customer Support, QA, Document Control, and a ton of Manufacturing people (probably outsourced). All of those people would require Accountants, HR, Facilities, Buyers, etc. They'll need office and lab space, expensive instruments, expensive CAD software, health insurance, etc. Just comparing the component costs to the sales price is problematic.

Those spectrometers are expensive for a reason. You get what you pay for, and those companies seem to have customers that want to buy them at those prices. Just like our very expensive lasers.

I think it would be really fun to build something like this as a DIY project, and you'll learn a lot. But I'm not sure you want to be the optical equivalent of Yugos or Tribants; Mercedes and Toyota were much more successful, but those cars are hard to design and build without huge investments.

OTOH, successful hardware startups like HP, Fairchild, and EGG would never have existed if they listened to my advice. Go for it if you have the knowledge and passion to give it a fair shot. Research the market and your competitor first. You'll need a business plan to get funding.

 

[Awwtumn]

What are the sizes of dusts before they can diffuse into the air and surrounding? For example, PM2.5 (2.5 micron) dusts can diffuse in air. What sizes before they can't?

I'd like to know what kinds of dusts can still get into these glove boxes. I guess you can use these on sensitive equipments.

[Link to photo website added by Mentor from a later reply by OP]
https://www.thomassci.com/Miscellaneous-Product-Bel-Art-Products/_/41905020-IRIS-PORT

 

[russ_watters]

What are the sizes of dusts before they can diffuse into the air and surrounding? For example, PM2.5 (2.5 micron) dusts can diffuse in air. What sizes before they can't?

[Edit]
Most of the particulate in a clean room doesn't launch itself into the air, it is thrown into the air off of people or equipment, so there isn't a specific limit to the particulate you might see. There is no real limit to size except based on settling time and what is in the room throwing particles.

That said, Google tells me 100 micron particles settle at around 1 ft/sec, which is probably near the max that can be kept aloft by air currents in a room (depending on the circulation).

 

[DaveE]

What are the sizes of dusts before they can diffuse into the air and surrounding? For example, PM2.5 (2.5 micron) dusts can diffuse in air. What sizes before they can't?

I'd like to know what kinds of dusts can still get into these glove boxes. I guess you can use these on sensitive equipments.

View attachment 312607

Yes, but probably overkill. Also, there's no engineering of airflow or filters. So, with lots of use it may accumulate a lot a crap. Also unpleasant to work with.

You'll do better with a laminar flow hood. This example is for microbes, but the idea is the same (I liked the airflow drawings), you can skip the antiseptic stuff like UV lights.

BTW, why's that dude dressed up like that when he's mostly on the outside? You can always spot a photo designed by marketing types, LOL. That's the cleanest, emptiest lab I ever saw.

 

[Rive]

To learn the secret of secrets.
It costs over $10,000. You can buy the parts at edmund scientific for only less than $500.

Well, you are on the right track. One of the reasons for that price difference is the consistency and carefulness what includes the clean interior too.

So I'm thinking if it's feasible to go into spectrometer business. Imagine you earn $9500 per unit or more.
For CCD in camera. Is there standard software that can just read the output of the CCD? If so, then if you hook this to the CCD directly, then you can read the output of any CCD in any brand of camera or equipments?

Actually, that's a good candidate for a DIY project. You can start with an old style monochrome flatbed scanner, if you like. There are plenty of projects around to learn from.
example

But somebody else just made it into a 'sky scanner' with a telescope.

 

[berkeman]

BTW, why's that dude dressed up like that when he's mostly on the outside? You can always spot a photo designed by marketing types, LOL.

Good point! And it's even worse -- usually you see built-in gloves in such an enclosure, but this technician is reaching through some sort of portals with gloved and gowned hands instead. Weird.

@Awwtumn where did you get that photo? Always remember to post a link to the source of a photo or drawing when you copy/paste, both for info purposes for others so they can go to the source, but also to avoid copyright violation.

 

[hutchphd]

I want to open up a spectrometer to see how the inside looks like. Is it true that the CCD in spectrometer is more sensitive to dusts than normal camera CCD such that even a small speck of dust can cover the CCD pixels and the user will get holes in the spectrum?

Because the CCD is linear (1D) the occlusion of a pixcel may be important. But the good news is that there will be no surprises. A bad pixel will easilly be flagged and not lead to bad data...just missing data. There is a lot of overblown rhetoric about optics because parts of it are pretty interesting and slightly esoteric The cleanliness required for a spectrophotometer is not particularly stringent in today's world.
You can find lots of obsolete spectrophotometers for dissection. For instance I have three Ocean Optics ISA bus -spectrophotometer cards on my bench inside a Win 95 PC. Old School. They work fine but I'm sure they can be bought cheap

 

[Awwtumn]

https://www.thomassci.com/Miscellaneous-Product-Bel-Art-Products/_/41905020-IRIS-PORT

I saw it at the above site.

The manufacturer of the spectrometer said:

"BTW, it is strictly forbidden to disclose the spectrometer. Even a small speck of dust can cover the CCD pixels and the user will get holes in the spectrum. Besides, there are a lot of other risks for the performance of the spectrometer if it is opened by anybody, not at our facilities.

Each spectrometer is covered with protective warranty shields. Once the spectrometer is opened we do not provide any kind of customer support to the user and withdraw the warranty."

Each micron of the linear CCD array is 8x200micron with about 3500 pixels. How much dusts before the user will get holes in the spectrum? And can't these dusts be removed by the blower but forever stuck to the CCD?

Standard warranty is one year. And even if one year has passed and the warranty seal has been broken, is it not manufacturer can still repair it with a fee if it needs repair? Are their products with warranty seals that are perpetual. Meaning if you open it up, they won't even repair it even with a fee? What products for instant where the inside is secret and must not be seen by any public eye?

 

[DaveE]

https://www.thomassci.com/Miscellaneous-Product-Bel-Art-Products/_/41905020-IRIS-PORT

I saw it at the above site.

The manufacturer of the spectrometer said:

"BTW, it is strictly forbidden to disclose the spectrometer. Even a small speck of dust can cover the CCD pixels and the user will get holes in the spectrum. Besides, there are a lot of other risks for the performance of the spectrometer if it is opened by anybody, not at our facilities.

Each spectrometer is covered with protective warranty shields. Once the spectrometer is opened we do not provide any kind of customer support to the user and withdraw the warranty."

Each micron of the linear CCD array is 8x200micron with about 3500 pixels. How much dusts before the user will get holes in the spectrum? And can't these dusts be removed by the blower but forever stuck to the CCD?

Standard warranty is one year. And even if one year has passed and the warranty seal has been broken, is it not manufacturer can still repair it with a fee if it needs repair? Are their products with warranty seals that are perpetual. Meaning if you open it up, they won't even repair it even with a fee? What products for instant where the inside is secret and must not be seen by any public eye?

Why are you asking us about the policies, procedures, and warrantee terms of an unnamed third party? We don't know. How could we?

 

[berkeman]

Standard warranty is one year. And even if one year has passed and the warranty seal has been broken, is it not manufacturer can still repair it with a fee if it needs repair? Are their products with warranty seals that are perpetual. Meaning if you open it up, they won't even repair it even with a fee? What products for instant where the inside is secret and must not be seen by any public eye?

Thread is closed.

We do not help you reverse-engineer products at PF. We do not help you get around product warranties at PF. We do not help you create cheap sub-standard knock-off products at PF. Lordy.