Do all reversible engines become heat pumps?

In summary: I JUST MISSING SOMETHING OBVIOUS?In summary, this conversation is describing a standard cycle for a heat engine. The first step is to cool the system at constant volume to a temperature, and then the second step is to reheat the system at constant pressure and temperature. The last step is to compress the system at constant temperature. Reverse the cycle and the machine does not work in the same way.
  • #1
joycounts
1
0
I have a cycle (and the gas is ideal) that starts at Pressure=4Po Volume=Vo and and Temperature=Th. First step it's cooled at constant volume to Tc and Po; Second step, it is reheated at constant pressure to Th and 4Vo, and lastly it is compressed at constant temperature to Vo and 4Po. For those who are drawing the picture to see this, it is going counterclockwise (suggesting a heat pump).

Clockwise it makes a reasonable engine as it pulls heat from the hot reservoir and dumps into the cold to make work. But reversed it doesn't make much sense to me. The first leg has no work and dumps heat into the cold reservoir, the second leg the system does work and draws heat from the hot reservoir, and the third leg work is done on the system and heat is released into the hot reservoir. It does not pull heat out of the cold and if my math is right (I can show my work if needed) I got that that 15/2 PoVo is absorbed from the hot reservoir and 4 ln(4) PoVo is put back in, creating and overall loss of heat from the hot and a gain to the cold.

This appears to me to just be an engine that takes work instead of becoming a heat pump. Am I just missing something obvious?
 
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  • #2
That's a pretty standard cycle - you should be able to reverse and so drive heat the other way.

You've noticed that you have to add work to reverse it - where does that energy go?
 
  • #3
joycounts said:
Clockwise it makes a reasonable engine as it pulls heat from the hot reservoir and dumps into the cold to make work. But reversed it doesn't make much sense to me. The first leg has no work and dumps heat into the cold reservoir, the second leg the system does work and draws heat from the hot reservoir, and the third leg work is done on the system and heat is released into the hot reservoir. It does not pull heat out of the cold and if my math is right (I can show my work if needed) I got that that 15/2 PoVo is absorbed from the hot reservoir and 4 ln(4) PoVo is put back in, creating and overall loss of heat from the hot and a gain to the cold.

This appears to me to just be an engine that takes work instead of becoming a heat pump. Am I just missing something obvious?
I agree that it is not going to make any sense as a heat pump. It is not a reversible cycle (ΔS>>0). The machine can be made to go in the reverse direction, of course, but that does not mean that it will achieve the same temperatures and pressures that are achieved when it operates as a heat engine.

AM
 

Related to Do all reversible engines become heat pumps?

1. What is a reversible engine?

A reversible engine is a theoretical device that can convert heat into work with 100% efficiency, meaning that no energy is lost in the process. It is often used as a model for thermodynamic systems.

2. How does a reversible engine work?

A reversible engine works by using a cyclic process of converting heat into work and then using that work to reverse the process and convert work back into heat. This process is known as the Carnot cycle and is based on the principles of thermodynamics.

3. Can all reversible engines become heat pumps?

Yes, all reversible engines have the ability to work in reverse and become heat pumps. This means that they can take heat from a colder source and transfer it to a hotter source, which is the opposite of their usual function of converting heat into work.

4. What is the purpose of a heat pump?

The purpose of a heat pump is to transfer heat from one location to another, typically from a colder location to a hotter location. This is useful for heating buildings, refrigeration, and air conditioning.

5. Are there any real-life examples of reversible engines becoming heat pumps?

Yes, heat pumps are commonly used in real-life applications. For example, air conditioners and refrigerators work by using a reversible engine to transfer heat from inside a building or appliance to the outside environment. Additionally, geothermal heat pumps use the heat from the earth to warm buildings in the winter and cool them in the summer.

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