# Definite Integration of a concave upward function- Inequality

#### Rido12

##### Well-known member
MHB Math Helper
On the last integral, is the upper bound "9"?

#### MarkFL

##### Pessimist Singularitarian
Staff member
Hello and welcome to MHB! Can you tell us what you've tried or what your thoughts are on how to begin, so our helpers have an idea where you are stuck and then can provide better help?

#### mathisfun

##### New member
Hello and welcome to MHB! Can you tell us what you've tried or what your thoughts are on how to begin, so our helpers have an idea where you are stuck and then can provide better help?
Thank you so much!
I began with the condition that the secant must lie above the curve at all points if the curve is concave upward but that seem to lead nowhere. I also tried to utilise the fact that the double derivative of f(X) will be positive but to no avail.
Any help will be appreciated.

#### MarkFL

##### Pessimist Singularitarian
Staff member
I think I would begin with the minimal case:

$$\displaystyle 0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

So, integrating, what can you say about $f$?

#### mathisfun

##### New member
I think I would begin with the minimal case:

$$\displaystyle 0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

So, integrating, what can you say about $f$?
Wouldn't integrating this inequality conclude the same thing as what we are given, that f is a concave upward function?

#### MarkFL

##### Pessimist Singularitarian
Staff member
Wouldn't integrating this inequality conclude the same thing as what we are given, that f is a concave upward function?
What did you get when integrating?

#### mathisfun

##### New member
What did you get when integrating?
That f(x) is greater than zero, but that seems to be contradictory as a negative function may also have positive derivative. #### MarkFL

##### Pessimist Singularitarian
Staff member
Let's begin with:

$$\displaystyle 0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

And so, on $$\displaystyle [1,k]$$ where $$\displaystyle 1<k\in\mathbb{R}$$ there must be some constant $C$ such that:

$$\displaystyle C<f^{\prime}(x)$$

What happens if you integrate again?

#### mathisfun

##### New member
Let's begin with:

$$\displaystyle 0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

And so, on $$\displaystyle [1,k]$$ where $$\displaystyle 1<k\in\mathbb{R}$$ there must be some constant $C$ such that:

$$\displaystyle C<f^{\prime}(x)$$

What happens if you integrate again?
If f1(X)>f2(x)
doesn't implies that the indefinite integration of f1(x) will be greater than f2(x). This is only applicable when both sides are integrated within limits and thus when integrating from 0 to x, constant gets eliminated.

#### MarkFL

##### Pessimist Singularitarian
Staff member
Let's try another approach...you mentioned that if the function is concave up, then it must lie beneath its secant line, or:

$$\displaystyle f(x)<\frac{f(b)-f(a)}{b-a}(x-a)+f(a)$$

What do you find upon integrating both sides from $a$ to $b$?