Correct interpretation of terms in proper velocity expression?

In summary, the "cosmological" proper distance from the origin, D(t), to an object at radial co-ordinate r at cosmological time t is given byD(t) = a(t) r(t) The corresponding "cosmological" proper velocity v of the object is given by v = \frac{dD}{dt} = \frac{da}{dt} r(t) + a(t) \frac{dr}{dt} Using the definition of the Hubble parameter H(t) = \dot{a} / a and the above equation D = a r we findv(t) = H(t)
  • #1
johne1618
371
0
The "cosmological" proper distance from the origin, [itex]D(t)[/itex], to an object at radial co-ordinate [itex]r[/itex] at cosmological time [itex]t[/itex] is given by

[itex]D(t) = a(t) r(t) [/itex]

The corresponding "cosmological" proper velocity [itex]v[/itex] of the object is given by

[itex] v = \frac{dD}{dt} = \frac{da}{dt} r(t) + a(t) \frac{dr}{dt} [/itex]

Using the definition of the Hubble parameter [itex]H(t) = \dot{a} / a[/itex] and the above equation [itex]D = a r[/itex] we find

[itex] v(t) = H(t) D(t) + a(t) \frac{dr}{dt} [/itex]

The first term is Hubble's law for the recessional velocity of a co-moving object whereas the second is the peculiar velocity term.

I would like to further understand the meaning of the peculiar velocity term.

To do so I use the relationship between an interval of co-moving time τ and cosmic time t

[itex] d\tau = \frac{dt}{a(t)}[/itex]

to rewrite the peculiar velocity term so that we have

[itex] v(t) = H(t) D(t) + \frac{dr}{d\tau} [/itex]

Thus the cosmological proper velocity of an object is the recessional velocity of its co-moving inertial frame plus the velocity of the object within this inertial frame. The co-ordinates of the object within its inertial frame are [itex](r,\tau)[/itex].

Is this the right interpretation of the above equation?
 
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  • #2
johne1618 said:
I would like to further understand the meaning of the peculiar velocity term.

To do so I use the relationship between an interval of co-moving time τ and cosmic time t

[itex] d\tau = \frac{dt}{a(t)}[/itex]
...

Instead of "co-moving time" can I interpret that as "conformal time"?
I don't mean to be picky about terminology but sometimes I get slowed down just by unfamiliar words.

According to paragraph 6 of this essay in John Baez physics FAQ
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/hubble.html
"comoving time" is actually just the SAME AS COSMIC TIME.
So it is not the same as conformal time.
An interval of conformal could differ by a factor of 1000 from an interval of cosmic (ie. "comoving").

==quote from Baez FAQ==
... However, this explanation glosses over one crucial point: the time coordinate. FRW spacetimes come fully equipped with a specially distinguished time coordinate (called the comoving or cosmological time). For example, a comoving observer could set her clock by the average density of surrounding speckles, or by the temperature of the Cosmic Background Radiation. (From a purely mathematical standpoint, the comoving time coordinate is singled out by a certain symmetry property.)...
==endquote==

I haven't heard "comoving time" used much--maybe others have and I just didn't notice. If it is as uncommon as I think, it could cause confusion.

IMHO better to say cosmic time t, or FRW time t.
the tau as you define it would be conformal time
=====================

I think your interpretation is perfectly fine, though. Good handling of the equations. Straightforward derivation. You clearly indicate that r is the CO-MOVING radial distance, so it doesn't change except due to the objects own peculiar motion.
The objects own peculiar radial velocity is then, as you say, dr/dτ

Maybe someone else will find something wrong. I don't
 
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  • #3
marcus said:
Instead of "co-moving time" can I interpret that as "conformal time"?

Sorry - yes I meant conformal time [itex]\tau[/itex].
 
  • #4
Hey great!
That sets my mind at rest. So AFAICS everything is OK.
 
  • #5
marcus said:
Hey great!
That sets my mind at rest. So AFAICS everything is OK.

So do inertial observers measure conformal time [itex]\tau[/itex] rather than cosmological time [itex]t[/itex]?
 

Related to Correct interpretation of terms in proper velocity expression?

1. What is the proper velocity expression?

The proper velocity expression is a mathematical formula used in physics to describe the motion of an object relative to a reference frame. It takes into account the object's velocity, time, and the speed of light.

2. How is the proper velocity expression different from other velocity expressions?

The proper velocity expression is different from other velocity expressions because it takes into account the effects of time dilation and length contraction, which occur at high speeds. This allows for more accurate calculations and predictions of an object's motion.

3. What is the importance of using the proper velocity expression?

Using the proper velocity expression is important because it allows for a more accurate understanding and description of an object's motion, especially at high speeds. It also helps to reconcile discrepancies between observations made in different reference frames.

4. How is the proper velocity expression used in practical applications?

The proper velocity expression is used in a variety of practical applications, such as aerospace engineering, astrophysics, and particle physics. It is essential for accurately predicting the trajectories of spacecraft, understanding the behavior of high-speed particles, and making precise measurements of distant objects in the universe.

5. Are there any limitations to the proper velocity expression?

While the proper velocity expression is a useful tool in physics, it does have some limitations. It assumes that the object is moving in a straight line at a constant velocity, and does not take into account the effects of acceleration or gravitational forces. It also does not apply to objects moving at speeds approaching the speed of light.

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