Constants of motion in Lagrangian

In summary, the conversation discusses the setup of a cylinder of mass m and radius R rolling down a wedge of mass M at an angle \alpha on a frictionless surface. The Lagrangian for this system is given, but it does not take into account the constraint of the cylinder being stuck to the wedge. The question is whether both constraints of y = R \sin(\alpha) \theta and y = (x_{m} + x_{M})\tan(\alpha) should be substituted in when determining the constants of motion, or if it doesn't matter which constraint is used.
  • #1
Screwdriver
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There's a specific problem I'm doing, but this is more of a general question. The setup is a cylinder of mass [itex]m[/itex] and radius [itex]R[/itex] rolling without slipping down a wedge inclined at angle [itex]\alpha[/itex] of mass [itex]M[/itex], where the wedge rests on a frictionless surface. I've made the Cartesian axis centred at the initial position of the centre of mass of the cylinder. Then, [itex]x_{m}[/itex] and [itex]x_{M}[/itex] are the horizontal distances of each mass (measured from the y-axis, so both quantities are positive), [itex]y[/itex] is the vertical position of the centre of mass of the cylinder and [itex]\theta[/itex] is the angle through which the cylinder has rolled. This makes it very easy to write down the Lagrangian:
$$
\mathcal{L} = \mathcal{K} - \mathcal{U} = \frac{1}{2}M\dot{x}_{M}^{2} + \frac{1}{2}m(\dot{x}_{m}^{2} + \dot{y}^{2}) + \frac{1}{4}mR^{2}\dot{\theta}^2 + mgy
$$
As of right now, the Lagrangian "doesn't know" about the fact that the cylinder's constrained to be stuck to the wedge. Basic trigonometry gives the relation [itex]y = d \sin(\alpha)[/itex], where [itex]d[/itex] is the distance traveled by the cylinder. But then, the cylinder rolls without slipping, so [itex]d = R\theta[/itex] and therefore [itex]y = R \sin(\alpha) \theta[/itex]. But then we also have that [itex]y = (x_{m} + x_{M})\tan(\alpha)[/itex] by an identical argument.

Here's where my question comes in. Do I have to sub in both constraints when determining the constants of motion, and does it matter which variables I eliminate? As it stands, the Lagrangian doesn't depend on [itex]\theta[/itex], [itex]x_{m}[/itex] or [itex]x_{M}[/itex], which leads one to believe that all those associated momenta are conserved, but the issue is that [itex]y[/itex] technically does depend on on those variables. It seems weird that no momenta would be conserved.
 
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  • #2
On the other hand, if I sub in one of the constraints, then I would get a different set of conserved momenta. I'm really just wondering if there's a right answer here, or if it doesn't matter which constraint I use.
 

Related to Constants of motion in Lagrangian

What are the constants of motion in Lagrangian?

The constants of motion in Lagrangian refer to physical quantities that do not change over time in a system, despite any changes in the system's variables or parameters. These constants are derived from the Lagrangian function, which represents the system's total energy.

How are constants of motion related to symmetries?

Constants of motion arise from symmetries in a system. If a system is invariant under certain transformations, such as translations or rotations, then there will be corresponding constants of motion that reflect these symmetries.

What is the significance of constants of motion in Lagrangian mechanics?

Constants of motion play a crucial role in understanding the dynamics of a system. They provide a way to simplify the equations of motion and make predictions about the behavior of the system without having to solve complex differential equations.

Can constants of motion be used to solve any physical system?

No, constants of motion can only be derived for systems that exhibit certain symmetries. If a system does not have any symmetries, then there will not be any constants of motion.

Are constants of motion the same as conserved quantities?

Yes, constants of motion and conserved quantities are equivalent terms. They both refer to physical quantities that remain constant over time in a system.

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