Circular Membrane: Solving $u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$ with Bessel's Equation

In summary, the conversation discusses the Helmholtz equation and its solutions for a circular membrane with fixed edges. The solution involves double Bessel-Fourier series and the use of initial conditions to determine the coefficients. The conversation also touches on the concept of infinite series and how they do not necessarily have to have the same terms in order to converge to the same value.
  • #1
Dustinsfl
2,281
5
$u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$ where $\nabla^2 = \frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial }{\partial r}\left(r\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\right) + \frac{1}{r^2}\frac{\partial^2}{\partial\theta^2}$.
Suppose $u(r,\theta,t) = G(r,\theta)e^{i\omega t}$.
Then
$$
-\omega^2Ge^{i\omega t} = c^2\nabla^2Ge^{i\omega t}
$$
which leads to the Helmholtz equation $(\nabla^2G + k^2G = 0)$ where $k^2 = \frac{\omega^2}{c^2}$.
Let $G(r,\theta) = R(r)e^{\pm im\theta}$.
Then
$$
\left[\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left(r\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\right) + \frac{1}{r^2}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\right]Re^{im\theta} + k^2Re^{im\theta} = 0
$$
which leads to
$$
r^2R'' + rR' + (k^2r^2 - m^2)R = 0\quad \text{(Bessel's equation)}.
$$
Therefore, $R(r) = \mathcal{J}_m(kr) = \sum\limits_{j = 0}^{\infty}\frac{(-1)^j}{(j!)^2(k + m)!}\left(\frac{kr}{2}\right)^{2j + m}$.
The circular membrane is of radius $a$ whose edges are fixed.
That is, $R(a) = \mathcal{J}_{mn}(k_{mn}a) = 0$.
Let $z_{mn}$ be the zeros of $J_{mn}$ and $z_{mn} = k_{mn}a\iff k_{mn} = \frac{z_{mn}}{a}$.
Then the form of the general solution is
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(r,\theta,t) & = & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \left[A_{mn}\cos m\theta + B_{mn}\sin m\theta\right] \cos\left(z_{mn}\frac{ct}{a}\right)\\
& + & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \left[C_{mn}\cos m\theta + D_{mn}\sin m\theta\right] \sin\left(z_{mn}\frac{ct}{a}\right)
\end{alignat*}
Using the first initial condition, we have\begin{alignat*}{5}
u(r,\theta,0) & = & \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \left[A_{mn}\cos m\theta + B_{mn}\sin m\theta\right] & = & 0
\end{alignat*}
How can I create a table of the eigenvalues for the Bessel equation in Mathematica?
Would it be
Code:
ClearAll["Global`*"]z = Table[N[BesselJZero[m, n]], {n, 1, 20}, {m, 0, 5}];
z // TableForm
{
 {2.40483, 3.83171, 5.13562, 6.38016, 7.58834, 8.77148},
 {5.52008, 7.01559, 8.41724, 9.76102, 11.0647, 12.3386},
 {8.65373, 10.1735, 11.6198, 13.0152, 14.3725, 15.7002},
 {11.7915, 13.3237, 14.796, 16.2235, 17.616, 18.9801},
 {14.9309, 16.4706, 17.9598, 19.4094, 20.8269, 22.2178},
 {18.0711, 19.6159, 21.117, 22.5827, 24.019, 25.4303},
 {21.2116, 22.7601, 24.2701, 25.7482, 27.1991, 28.6266},
 {24.3525, 25.9037, 27.4206, 28.9084, 30.371, 31.8117},
 {27.4935, 29.0468, 30.5692, 32.0649, 33.5371, 34.9888},
 {30.6346, 32.1897, 33.7165, 35.2187, 36.699, 38.1599},
 {33.7758, 35.3323, 36.8629, 38.3705, 39.8576, 41.3264},
 {36.9171, 38.4748, 40.0084, 41.5207, 43.0137, 44.4893},
 {40.0584, 41.6171, 43.1535, 44.6697, 46.1679, 47.6494},
 {43.1998, 44.7593, 46.298, 47.8178, 49.3204, 50.8072},
 {46.3412, 47.9015, 49.4422, 50.965, 52.4716, 53.963},
 {49.4826, 51.0435, 52.586, 54.1116, 55.6217, 57.1173},
 {52.6241, 54.1856, 55.7296, 57.2577, 58.7708, 60.2702},
 {55.7655, 57.3275, 58.873, 60.4032, 61.9192, 63.4221},
 {58.907, 60.4695, 62.0162, 63.5484, 65.067, 66.5729},
 {62.0485, 63.6114, 65.1593, 66.6932, 68.2142, 69.7229}}
\begin{alignat*}{5}
u(r,\theta,0) & = & 0 & & \\
u_t(r,\theta,0) & = & \delta(\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}_0) & = & \delta(r - r_0, \theta - \theta_0) \end{alignat*}
$$
\int_A\delta(\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}_0)f(r,\theta)dA = \int_0^{2\pi}\int_0^a\delta(r - r_0, \theta - \theta_0)f(r,\theta)rdrd\theta = f(\mathbf{x}_0)
$$
 
Last edited:
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  • #2
$$
\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta
$$
Does this imply that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$? That is my thought.
 
  • #3
dwsmith said:
$$
\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta
$$
Does this imply that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$? That is my thought.
Putting in my two cents:

Both sums are functions of [tex]\theta[/tex] so the only time you could require that [tex]A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0[/tex] would be when [tex]cos(m \theta ) = -sin(m \theta)[/tex].

-Dan
 
  • #4
topsquark said:
Putting in my two cents:

Both sums are functions of [tex]\theta[/tex] so the only time you could require that [tex]A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0[/tex] would be when [tex]cos(m \theta ) = -sin(m \theta)[/tex].

-Dan

Does m being an integer help?
 
  • #5
dwsmith said:
Does m being an integer help?
Ummm...Not sure what you're trying to say there?

We have the condition that
[tex]A_{mn}~cos(m \theta) + B_{mn}~sin(m \theta ) = 0[/tex]

All I'm saying is that if we have
[tex]cos(m \theta) = - sin(m \theta )[/tex]

[tex]tan(m \theta) = -1[/tex]

etc, etc.
Only certain values of [tex]\theta[/tex] will mandate that the coefficients are zero.

-Dan
 
  • #6
topsquark said:
Ummm...Not sure what you're trying to say there?

We have the condition that
[tex]A_{mn}~cos(m \theta) + B_{mn}~sin(m \theta ) = 0[/tex]

All I'm saying is that if we have
[tex]cos(m \theta) = - sin(m \theta )[/tex]

[tex]tan(m \theta) = -1[/tex]

etc, etc.
Only certain values of [tex]\theta[/tex] will mandate that the coefficients are zero.

-Dan

Then I am at a loss on solving for the coefficients.
 
  • #7
Would it be easier perhaps to start with the second initial condition?
If this is correct(below)
$$
C_{0n} = \frac{\int_0^a \int_0^{2\pi}r \delta(r - r_0,\theta - \theta_0) \mathcal{J}_{0n} \left(z_{0n}\frac{r}{a}\right)d\theta dr}{z_{0n}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{1}^2(z_{0n})} = \frac{\mathcal{J}_{0n} \left(z_{0n}\frac{r_0}{a}\right)}{z_{0n}ac\pi \mathcal{J}_{1}^2(z_{0n})},
$$
$$
C_{mn} = \frac{2\int_0^a \int_0^{2\pi}r \delta(r - r_0,\theta - \theta_0) \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)\cos m\theta d\theta dr}{z_{mn}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})} = \frac{2\mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r_0}{a}\right)\cos m\theta_0}{z_{mn}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})}\quad m\neq 0,
$$
and
$$
D_{mn} = \frac{2\int_0^a \int_0^{2\pi}r \delta(r - r_0,\theta - \theta_0) \mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right) \sin m\theta d\theta dr}{z_{mn}ac\pi \mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})} = \frac{2\mathcal{J}_{mn} \left(z_{mn}\frac{r_0}{a}\right)\sin m\theta_0}{z_{mn}ac\pi\mathcal{J}_{m + 1}^2(z_{mn})}.
$$
 
  • #8
Since we have the double Bessel-Fourier series, A = B = 0 is the answer unless I am missing something I am sure it is 0.
 
  • #9
dwsmith said:
$$
\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta
$$
Does this imply that $A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0$? That is my thought.

Hi dwsmith, :)

No. This does not imply that \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\). However \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\) is a trivial solution to,

\[\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta\]

Note that if you have two infinite series \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}\) and \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n}\) equal to one another means that the two series will converge to the same value not that \(a_{n}=b_{n}\).

\[\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}=\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n} \not\Rightarrow a_{n}=b_{n}\]

Kind Regards,
Sudharka.
 
  • #10
Sudharaka said:
Hi dwsmith, :)

No. This does not imply that \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\). However \(A_{mn} = B_{mn} = 0\) is a trivial solution to,

\[\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)A_{mn}\cos m\theta = - \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \sum_{m = 0}^{ \infty} \mathcal{J}_{mn}\left(z_{mn}\frac{r}{a}\right)B_{mn}\sin m\theta\]

Note that if you have two infinite series \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}\) and \(\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n}\) equal to one another means that the two series will converge to the same value not that \(a_{n}=b_{n}\).

\[\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_{n}=\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}b_{n} \not\Rightarrow a_{n}=b_{n}\]

Kind Regards,
Sudharka.

It is true because of
dwsmith said:
Since we have the double Bessel-Fourier series, A = B = 0 is the answer unless I am missing something I am sure it is 0.

See http://www.mathhelpboards.com/f13/integrating-delta-bessel-function-2655/ for the coefficients of the double Bessel-Fourier series.
 

Related to Circular Membrane: Solving $u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$ with Bessel's Equation

1. What is a circular membrane?

A circular membrane is a hypothetical model used in physics and engineering to represent a thin, flexible, circular surface that can vibrate in response to external or internal forces.

2. What is the equation used to solve for vibrations on a circular membrane?

The equation used to solve for vibrations on a circular membrane is called the wave equation, which is expressed as $u_{tt} = c^2\nabla^2u$, where $u$ is the displacement of the membrane, $c$ is the speed of the wave, and $\nabla^2$ is the Laplace operator.

3. What is Bessel's equation and how is it related to circular membrane vibrations?

Bessel's equation is a second-order linear differential equation that is commonly used to solve for vibrations on a circular membrane. It is related to circular membrane vibrations because it describes the radial displacement of the membrane as a function of time and space.

4. How is Bessel's equation solved?

Bessel's equation can be solved using various methods, such as power series, Frobenius method, or numerical methods. The solution is typically expressed in terms of Bessel functions, which are special functions that satisfy Bessel's equation.

5. What are the applications of solving the circular membrane equation?

Solving the circular membrane equation has various applications in physics and engineering. It can be used to study the vibrations of drums, cymbals, and other musical instruments. It is also useful in understanding the behavior of elastic membranes, such as in the design of speakers, microphones, and other acoustic devices. Additionally, it has applications in seismology, where it can be used to model the vibrations of the Earth's surface caused by earthquakes.

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