Chances of getting into CalTech as an international student

[bubica]

Hello everyone!

I'm a senior in a Gymnasium in Europe and I want to apply to CalTech.
Last year I spent in the US as an exchange student and I got familiar with the US education then. I took just 1 AP course there (Chem) b\c they didn't let me take more (it's going to be too hard for you, you're just an exchange student...blabla). On the AP Exam i got a 5. Now when I'm home, I see that I can do a whole lot of AP exams for a 5 or maybe a 4.

I can take AP Calc BC, Computer Science A, Physics B, Physics C: Mechanics, Physics C: El. circuits and Magnetism, Microeconomics, Macroeconomics, Statistics and Psychology. I will choose the first 5 and probably 2 of the last 4 (I already did Chem). I hope I'll get all 5s, but a 4 or two 4s may happen (you never know?).

I'm starting a research in the field of Inorganic Chemistry in my school in assosiation with a local college of natural sciences.

I'm doing my senior year of high school now and next AP Exams are in May (my country doesn't offer AP nor 3A level courses, but I can take AP exams outside school. we also have IB in our country, but the school is not very good so I don't go there).

I did a ACT exam the first month while I was in the US and wasn't so sure in my english. I got a 36 on Math, but my english was pretty bad. I think I know english much better now when my exchange year is over. We didn't have time to finish the Science part because it wasn't counting as a real ACT and the next period begin so they just said to stop in the middle of it, but I started very good at it (what I had time for).

I'm a scout for 2 years now (mixed boys and girls scouts). My team of 5 of us won the national league and national scouting olympics last year and we're competing this year, too.
I play piano for 7 years and guitar for 5. I finished 6-year Music School playing piano (I also had solfeggio, harmony, choir, the history of music and all of that kind of stuff when I was still in elementary and middle school) and 4-year Music Academy playing guitar in high school.

I'm also a passionate photographer. I can send them my photographs or a link if necessary.
I do a little bit of community service. I'm a part of a team that organises big games in the whole nation for kids whos parents were in a war that happened in my country two decades ago.

I'll get a full scholarship for a physics, engineering and programming college here and I'm going to enroll in it next fall.
I plan to do all of those AP exams just because of CalTech because I have to prove that I know all of that stuff and if I don't get into CalTech, I'd just continue with my college here.
Even if Calc BC is not enough for CalTech, I'll be enrolled in a college here and know more than Calc BC in math which is quite what my school does (which is the best in the country) if that's a problem.

The thing I'm concerned about is that I have never won an award for science and have never competed on a national or international level in science. I just studied myself and never competed.

The other thing is that I'd need quite a bit of a financial aid, too. My parents are not poor for my country, but when you compare it with the living expenses in California, it's not a lot. I'd need a scholarship for the most of the yearly cost of the school.If someone goes to CalTech here or knows a lot about it, I'd appreciate the help if you can help me see what my chances of getting into CalTech are.
Thank you very much.

edit- what I forgot to mention is that I don't want to transfer to CalTech, I want to enter as a Freshman. I'm younger than most of my friends in my class anyway. I'm born in January of 1993 and I want to start CalTech in the fall of 2012. (which is after 1 year of college here because of all the tests I have to make, I can't have it earlier and I'm younger than most of my fellows anyway...)

 

[G037H3]

I'm not from CalTech or anything, but I'd say your odds after a strong year are probably about 5-6%. If you can get your English up to C2 level, it would probably go up to 10%.

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm not from CalTech or anything, but I'd say your odds after a strong year are probably about 5-6%. If you can get your English up to C2 level, it would probably go up to 10%.

This is nonsense.

http://www.admissions.caltech.edu/about/stats

~650 admissions
11% international

You are singling out what is arguably the best STEM university in the world and telling someone who has never even competed or done some form of academic work above and beyond the usual track that they have a 10% chance? Hardly.

@OP: The problem with admissions into these top top schools is that you're competing with people who have won national awards, regional awards, done research (however minor) at universities, and all sorts of things from around the world. At that level, it almost becomes just a random occurrence as to who gets in and who doesn't. Now, if you start thinking CalTech, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, etc etc, your odds, although still low, go up. Focusing on a single school is a bad move though.

 

[G037H3]

well his OP made a better impression on me than you, I suppose

he seems pretty driven, so I think in the next year he could bolster a lot of the things he's already done

 

[Vanadium 50]

I'm not from CalTech or anything

...or, according to your profile, even in college. Do you you have any particular experiences or insights that would make your advice better than one would expect from your background?

Bubica, I think you need to ask yourself what change in your behavior could possibly be a consequence of these messages. If a bunch of guys on the internet say "no, your odds are low" does that mean you won't even apply? If a bunch of guys on the internet say "your chances are good" do you think this will have any weight with the admissions department?

 

[G037H3]

...or, according to your profile, even in college. Do you you have any particular experiences or insights that would make your advice better than one would expect from your background?

I'm already comparatively well educated, and consider your inflexibility concerning knowledge/understanding in comparison to life events that can put off opportunities to attend university to be rather silly.

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm already comparatively well educated, and consider your inflexibility concerning knowledge/understanding in comparison to life events that can put off opportunities to attend university to be rather silly.

So how does this offer anything when it comes to judging university admissions?

 

[G037H3]

So how does this offer anything when it comes to judging university admissions?

Perhaps I'm interested in attending a top university for grad school, and thus have read some general data.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You're just digging a deeper hole. You provided a quantitative estimate, and no basis for it. You should expect people to call you on that.

 

[G037H3]

You're just digging a deeper hole. You provided a quantitative estimate, and no basis for it. You should expect people to call you on that.

Okay, then spend hours and give him a calculation then.

I gave him a response based on what my knowledge tells me. If you feel like one-upping me, go for it.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Give it a rest...you didn't know what you were talking about, and made a number up, and you got caught at it. For heaven's sake, stop digging a deeper and deeper hole. My position is summed up in #5.

 

[G037H3]

I've addressed every challenge to my post that you've made. He's asking for opinions, I took the time to read his post, and then offered my opinion. If you have problems with that, feel free to provide data that would help to guide the OP.

 

[bubica]

First of all, thank you everybody for responding.

Secondly, I'm a she.

@G037H3 - my english is on C1 level now and should go up to C2 level this schoolyear. A lot of people from my class are taking CPE exam next year... I could join them.. Even though on their site they say that in my interest is to take TOEFL which is...a piece of cake.

@Vanadium 50 - the thing is that I've no idea about what exactly do universities like that expect from international students. I just wanted to see where I stand - roughly. I mean, if I'm compatative or not as much.

@Pengwuino - I'm doing a research on a college right now... inorganic chem reasearch. And I focused only on CalTech because I like it's location and size and curriculum and everything... I might apply to some other university too, but I'm not sure I want to leave my country for any college out there...

Just to add, I'm going to do one year of physics/engineering/programming on the best college in my country that has already gave me full scholarship... does that help at all?
I'm going to apply anyways, I just want to see where I stand. I feel like I didn't do as much as I could have done. I don't know what are my limits because everything I did so far was easy for me and I didn't stretch myself, I fell like I could do much more than I did until now. I want to see what my limits are and if I'm not for CalTech or that "level" of universities, at least I know what my limit is. I'm going to try to fulfill my potential this year and see what happens.
Still, I'd like to hear more opinions.
Oh, another thing. I saw on the Internet that MIT is accepting a lot of women and people from minorities just to even it out and CalTech is not? Idk.
Thankies everybody.

 

[G037H3]

No problem.

Oh, neato. But you're on the internet, so you're male by default until/unless you state otherwise.

The thing about the English is that I notice little grammar errors, that looks like the main thing you should patch up a bit.

 

[bubica]

haha i usually forget to state that 'cause in my language, you'd see my sex in the first sentence... :P

 

[TMFKAN64]

Just to add, I'm going to do one year of physics/engineering/programming on the best college in my country that has already gave me full scholarship... does that help at all?

Actually, it probably hurts you. You'll be a transfer student, and that's a much more difficult situation than an ordinary freshman admission.

EDIT: I see you don't consider yourself a transfer student. Unfortunately, I suspect most universities will...

 

[fss]

Actually, it probably hurts you. You'll be a transfer student, and that's a much more difficult situation than an ordinary freshman admission.

EDIT: I see you don't consider yourself a transfer student. Unfortunately, I suspect most universities will...

Depends. She'll be a transfer student if she claims credit for any of the courses she takes at the local university. If she doesn't claim the credits, she won't be a transfer. But that's also another year of tuition and board to pay, so the financial implications will have to be well thought-out.

 

[bubica]

But that's also another year of tuition and board to pay, so the financial implications will have to be well thought-out.

The year I'll spend at the college in my country will be free for me...Well, for the first year at least (and probably for the rest of it too if I decide to stay aka. don't get into CalTech).

 

[fss]

The year I'll spend at the college in my country will be free for me...Well, for the first year at least (and probably for the rest of it too if I decide to stay aka. don't get into CalTech).

That is not what I was referring to. CalTech, unless you are an exceptional student (which, no offense, you don't seem to be) requires 4 years to earn a BS degree (it might require 4 years residency no matter what- I haven't checked). As a transfer, if you can get a full year's worth of credits from your home institution, you might be able to finish your degree in 3 years. If you come in as a newly admitted student and claim no credits from your home institution, you'll probably have to pay for the extra year.

 

[Pengwuino]

If you plan on transferring to Caltech, I'd have a search on the boards here. I remember someone saying you're literally talking about TWO international transfer spots per year.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I remember someone saying you're literally talking about TWO international transfer spots per year.

According to their web site, they took 4 students in total over the last 4 years. So "best in the world" is not too far off from what they are looking for.

As far as just not reporting the time at university, they also say "Students who have completed their secondary-school education and have subsequently enrolled at a college for credit will be considered for transfer admission."

 

[bubica]

As far as just not reporting the time at university, they also say "Students who have completed their secondary-school education and have subsequently enrolled at a college for credit will be considered for transfer admission."

Wait, but my college woldn't be for credit...
Well, never mind anyway 'cause I won't get in. I should have been thinking about it years earlier.

 

[ephedyn]

Man, I accidentally clicked the arXiv bookmark next to my tab, and I lost a loooong post. Let me try to recall what I've said:

It's true that MIT admits a higher percentage of its female applicants than Caltech. Their admissions office practises a strange form of affirmative action, whereas Caltech is much more objective. To explain this, it has been argued that the average female applicant to MIT is stronger than the average male applicant, but the general consensus is that there's still some affirmative action in play (because if the argument were true, then other science-ish schools like Caltech should have the same statistics). Nonetheless, the girls that I know from MIT are seriously accomplished and in fact as good as the guys I know there. As your achievements approach that level, I suppose the statistical advantage you have as a female applicant tends to zero.

Caltech (and Stanford, just to state all I know), on the other hand, looks at more standardized/'objective' scales, like say, your SAT/ACT scores, class rank, number of APs/IBs and scores in said examinations. For instance, the interquartile range of their admits have higher SAT/ACT scores. So quite often you see the sub-30 ACT, 0~1 AP person from a not-so-well-off school/family background admitted to MIT (though I must say this is still the exception and not the rule) as compared to Caltech's admitted pool. On the other hand, most of the Caltech admits seem to have the staple high scores, Olympiad-class awards. Another thing that isn't oft-mentioned is that colleges keep track of schools from which applications are received, so you definitely hand to stand out from the past applicants in your school, and you do get a closer look if your school has past admits to the said school.

I think all the stuff I've written above doesn't matter as much as this: your chances of being admitted to Caltech than to need-blind schools (e.g. Princeton, Harvard, MIT) are lower if you are in need of financial aid as an international student. Also, I think the single thing that can increase your chances most now is to increase your ACT composite/English score.

Also, there's no point falling in love with one particular school before you get in. Make sure you have a plan B. Transferring is not *that* bad - it does give you the chance to have a feel for the intellectual community of 2 different places, especially the particular department if you already know what you're definitely going to major in; an interesting experience I'll say. In fact I myself (I'm a freshman) am planning to transfer next year simply for this reason.

I'm a little confused about your last line ('edit'-), not sure what I have to say there.

*****​

I personally never 'chance' people - I'm not an admissions officer. But I think you stand enough of a chance that you should just try applying. I also personally think that you stand a higher chance at MIT (from reading your brief background) than Caltech. If you can express your passion for what you're doing (and if you really are, and have the evidence to back it), and perhaps say something about being a year younger than your class, go for it.

If you want a sense of assurance from chancing, the best 'chancing' I can give you is this: there are currently 24 undergraduates from Canada at MIT - meaning an admit rate of around 6 admits from the whole of Canada per year. Scaling down for Caltech's smaller population, that should be around 3-4 per year. Imagine the profile of these 3-6 people that stand out in the whole of Canada's college-entering batch, and if you think you can possibly slip into that group of people, you stand a good chance.

Best of luck.

 

[jtbell]

Imagine the profile of these 3-6 people that stand out in the whole of Canada's college-entering batch, and if you think you can possibly slip into that group of people, you stand a good chance.

Note the OP is in Europe, not in Canada.

 

[ephedyn]

Note the OP is in Europe, not in Canada.

LOL, you beat me to editing my post! I don't know how I had this impression that the OP is from Canada.

Either ways, take a look at:

http://web.mit.edu/registrar/stats/geo/geo0809.html

It's probably 1-2 per year from your country, whichever part of Europe you're from.