Are Pi-mesons and W-bosons Identical? Exploring Particle Decay

  • Thread starter talanum52
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Pi
In summary, the conversation discusses the similarities and differences between the decay products of the pi- and W- particles, and whether they can be considered identical. The pi- is a composite particle made of quarks, while the W- is a fundamental particle. While they have the same spin, they have different masses and decay channels. The concept of structure conservation is mentioned, but it is not applicable in this case.
  • #1
talanum52
19
3
Homework Statement
pi- =W-?
Relevant Equations
pi- = W- ?
They decay to identical particles but are they identical?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
What are your own efforts in trying to answer this question?
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71 and topsquark
  • #3
talanum52 said:
Homework Statement:: pi- =W-?
Relevant Equations:: pi- = W- ?

They decay to identical particles but are they identical?
Can you list the properties of each of these particles?

-Dan
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #4
topsquark said:
Can you list the properties of each of these particles?
They don't have the same mass and spin. Because they decay to the same particles, there must be additional particles in their decay formulas, that isn't the same, because spin is a conserved quantity.
 
  • #5
talanum52 said:
They don't have the same mass and spin. Because they decay to the same particles, there must be additional particles in their decay formulas, that isn't the same, because spin is a conserved quantity.
They do, indeed, have different masses. But why do you say they have different spins? They are both spin 1 bosons.

You are looking only at decay products. What you are not looking at is the more basic stuff. Here's a brief rundown.

A ##\pi^-## is made of a pair of bound quarks: a ##\overline{u}## and a d. It has a spin of 1 and an isospin of -1, and being made of quarks participates in the strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and electromagnetic forces.

A ##W^-## is a weak gauge boson and is a fundamental particle. It has a spin of 1 and an isospin of 0. It is not made of quarks and participates in the weak nuclear and electromagnetic forces.

(Also look up weak isospin.)

The mass difference doesn't imply that there are any particles missing from the decay lists, it just means that the decays from the ##W^-## are more energetic.

So the main difference is that the ##W^-## is a fundamental weak gauge boson and the ##\pi^-## is a composite meson.

-Dan
 
  • #6
The pions are pseudoscalar particles, the W-bosons vector ones. I've no clue, how one can get to the idea they were the same particles to begin with.
 
  • Like
Likes topsquark
  • #7
vanhees71 said:
I've no clue, how one can get to the idea they were the same particles to begin with.
They decay to identical particles - that's why.
 
  • #8
talanum52 said:
They decay to identical particles - that's why.
Are decay products the same as their constituents?

Neutral pion decays into two photons, is the pion composed of photons?

Note that ##\pi^-## has several decay channels, same with the ##W^-## boson.
 
  • Like
Likes topsquark
  • #9
malawi_glenn said:
Are decay products the same as their constituents?

Neutral pion decays into two photons, is the pion composed of photons?
I'm arguing that structure is conserved. Then the neutral pion's substructures cancel (not the energy).
 
  • Skeptical
Likes malawi_glenn
  • #10
talanum52 said:
I'm arguing that structure is conserved. Then the neutral pion's substructures cancel (not the energy).
It's an interesting idea, but it doesn't work well in practice. In fact, this example shows why you can't make this argument in general: the ##W^-## is a fundamental particle and does not have any structure to conserve. And as there are many ways in which it can decay it would be hard to say, just by looking at the daughters, what the original particle might have been before the decay. (Possible, of course, but hard.)

-Dan
 
  • #11
talanum52 said:
I'm arguing that structure is conserved. Then the neutral pion's substructures cancel (not the energy).

Define "structure"and how/why it would be conserved.

This is clearly not homework, looks more like own idea/speculation of yours.

##W^-## boson can decay into bottom quark (plus another lighter quark), ##\pi^-## can not. Case closed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes vanhees71 and topsquark
  • #12
malawi_glenn said:
Define "structure"and how/why it would be conserved.
Structure is the quantum numbers, mass, velocity and the space points and left out points that carries it. In my model of particles. It just seems conserved because this is the most economical.

It is work at home.
 
  • Haha
Likes weirdoguy and malawi_glenn
  • #13
talanum52 said:
In my model of particles
This is personal theory, which is off limits here. Your legitimate question has been answered.

Thread closed.
 
  • Like
Likes topsquark and vanhees71

Related to Are Pi-mesons and W-bosons Identical? Exploring Particle Decay

1. What are Pi-mesons and W-bosons?

Pi-mesons and W-bosons are both subatomic particles that are part of the Standard Model of particle physics. Pi-mesons are composed of a quark and an antiquark, while W-bosons are elementary particles that mediate the weak nuclear force.

2. How are Pi-mesons and W-bosons related to particle decay?

Pi-mesons and W-bosons are both involved in the process of particle decay. Pi-mesons can decay into other particles, while W-bosons are responsible for the decay of heavier particles, such as the top quark.

3. Are Pi-mesons and W-bosons identical?

No, Pi-mesons and W-bosons are not identical. They have different properties, such as mass and charge, and play different roles in particle interactions. However, they are both important in understanding the fundamental particles and forces of the universe.

4. How do scientists study Pi-mesons and W-bosons?

Scientists study Pi-mesons and W-bosons by using particle accelerators, such as the Large Hadron Collider, to create and observe these particles. They also use mathematical models and simulations to understand their behavior and interactions.

5. What is the significance of exploring particle decay?

Exploring particle decay allows scientists to better understand the fundamental building blocks of the universe and the forces that govern them. It also has practical applications, such as in medical imaging and technology development.

Similar threads

  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
0
Views
512
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
728
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
888
Replies
16
Views
1K
  • High Energy, Nuclear, Particle Physics
Replies
2
Views
679
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
886
  • High Energy, Nuclear, Particle Physics
Replies
23
Views
452
  • High Energy, Nuclear, Particle Physics
Replies
1
Views
261
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
1K
Back
Top