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Smurf
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Yes. I suppose I should try harder to catch up on the times. Which half of my brain is it I need to remove?Kerrie said:Yes, it's called progression, you might want to keep up with it, or find yourself complaining a lot.
Yes. I suppose I should try harder to catch up on the times. Which half of my brain is it I need to remove?Kerrie said:Yes, it's called progression, you might want to keep up with it, or find yourself complaining a lot.
Well, it might turn out costly for that one school district, but I think it's something that has to be tried to find out if it will work before a lot of other schools adopt the policy.Kerrie said:Yes, it's called progression, you might want to keep up with it, or find yourself complaining a lot.
Businesses that give their employees laptops give them external keyboards and monitors to prevent problems. If the kids are expected to be on the laptops all day, they will also need to furnish these.Moonbear said:One thing that occurred to me though is your comment about back strain from carrying the textbooks, Kerrie. At first, that sounded sensible. I know I had a lot of headaches from neck strain when still in school, and it still returns if I have a lot of stuff I'm carrying back and forth to the office. However, as I've let the thought settle a bit and mulled it over more, I'm wondering if we'll just be substituting one ailment for another. Instead of back strain, will the kids be more susceptible to repetitive stress injuries and eyestrain? Since they're all using laptops, and laptop keyboards are considered the worst kind of keyboard for repetitive stress injuries due to their flat layout and cramped keys that can affect both the hands/wrists, and your shoulders/neck from being hunched as you type, along with the fact that you can't adjust the height of the monitor either.
Will they also remember to teach them to look up from the monitor from time to time to avoid eye strain?
If Smurf headed the school board, kids would still be writing on clay tablets and using an abacus.Smurf said:okay, shopping list so far:
Laptop per student
External keyboard per student
external monitor per student
wireless connection for each laptop connected to central intranet with possible internet access
IT guy to monitor intranet and student laptops to prevent unauthorized use
Okay, what's next? I think we should give them all free tap dancing lessons too!
If I headed the schoolboard... :!)Evo said:If Smurf headed the school board, kids would still be writing on clay tablets and using an abacus.
Moonbear said:Well, it might turn out costly for that one school district, but I think it's something that has to be tried to find out if it will work before a lot of other schools adopt the policy.
One thing that occurred to me though is your comment about back strain from carrying the textbooks, Kerrie. At first, that sounded sensible. I know I had a lot of headaches from neck strain when still in school, and it still returns if I have a lot of stuff I'm carrying back and forth to the office. However, as I've let the thought settle a bit and mulled it over more, I'm wondering if we'll just be substituting one ailment for another. Instead of back strain, will the kids be more susceptible to repetitive stress injuries and eyestrain? Since they're all using laptops, and laptop keyboards are considered the worst kind of keyboard for repetitive stress injuries due to their flat layout and cramped keys that can affect both the hands/wrists, and your shoulders/neck from being hunched as you type, along with the fact that you can't adjust the height of the monitor either.
Will they also remember to teach them to look up from the monitor from time to time to avoid eye strain?
Kerrie said:good point, but eyestrain has been around long before laptops. i think the main objective of using laptops instead of textbooks is costs of the books (they are very expensive and add up when you have 5+ classes for every year) and the simple fact you can condense information onto a little chip or CD. if it was a guaranteed fact that each student had a desktop at home, CD's would certainly be the way to go. the laptops also are loaded with word processing programs for students to type reports for example instead of having to go to a library and use a clunky typewriter.
it's inevitable though, within several years, i wouldn't be surprised if textbooks are obsoleted and replaced with technology in one form or another.
It'll probably wind up about the same. I just don't think it's really going to be a cost-saving measure is all.Kerrie said:costs in keeping textbooks up to date are expensive too. not sure how long textbooks remain in circulation, but printing is VERY expensive, i remember working at a printing company for nearly 5 years, and it amazing how much it costs to run a press and pay the person to run that press.
I hope that will be true. I think this idea of using the two medias to complement each other in student instruction is the best approach.i don't believe our education system will replace books altogether, there is a certain amount of relaxation to reading a book, and i am sure teachers will include reading those classics as assignments for a long time. the laptop is just a different tool to funnel the same information essentially.
Kids that don't have internet access outside of school are at a disadvantage when compared to those that do. Kids that can access information freely, will always have an advantage. One of the reasons when I was growing up that having an up to date set of encyclopedias at home was important, it gave you an edge, (if you read a lot).TheStatutoryApe said:When I posted a thread in Politics on the new scheme CA was trying to pass of shortening textbooks and replacing content with internet sites where information can be obtained Kat brought this up. Apparently they are already doing this in her state, I think she said New Hampshire and she said her kids are doing quite well with it. The problem is with places like here in CA. There are so many schools that are behind and densely packed with kids from low income families. What happens if you can't afford a laptop, a computer at home, internet access at home? You just get screwed?
I came from a relatively low income family. I used old encyclopedias and the library when I was in school.Evo said:Kids that don't have internet access outside of school are at a disadvantage when compared to those that do. Kids that can access information freely, will always have an advantage. One of the reasons when I was growing up that having an up to date set of encyclopedias at home was important, it gave you an edge, (if you read a lot).
You go to the computer lab after school. You go to the local library. What you DON'T do is give every kid a free lap top because they can't be bothered to cope with the slight advantage other kids have of being able to eat when using a computer. Does anyone else see this as plain stupidity? It's like in Iraq, vehicles keep getting blown up, so you damn yanks just say "Well, let's put more armor on it, that should work". So now you're vehicles are twice as heavy, consuming 30% more fuel, have a 20% lower max speed, 20% slower acceleration and the RPG-7 still blows them up because it can punch through 500mm of steel at long range and 2-3 times that at the low ranges it is usually fired at. All because you guys couldn't be bothered to train soldiers to accompany tanks on foot, always been the single biggest danger to an RPG gunner.TheStatutoryApe said:What happens if you can't afford a laptop, a computer at home, internet access at home? You just get screwed?
No, there's more to it than just the advantage of eating while using the computer. I also grew up in a family that was probably not low income, but lower middle class...we weren't poor, but we didn't have much extra at the end of the month either and both my parents had to work (that's not chose to work, that's had to work). It was hard enough to get to the library let alone spend time using it. Prior to high school, I couldn't stay after school for anything because there was nobody to pick me up if I didn't get my bus home. There were after-school activities I pleaded with my parents to do, but it had nothing to do with them not wanting to allow me to join them, they just could not take the time off from work to pick me up. When I got to high school, there were "late" buses that would take students home from their after school activities. Of course that meant if you needed to stay after school for 30 min for something, you had to wait another hour and a half for the bus that took you home because they were timed to give the kids on athletic teams a ride home after practice. It also meant that instead of the 20 min bus ride back to your neighborhood, you were riding around for another 1.5 to 2 hours (I lived in one of the furthest neighborhoods from the school) because the route covered half the town. I don't know if you've ever tried doing homework on a school bus, but it just doesn't work, so to stay afterschool for 30 min, you lost 3 to 4 hours of study/homework time.Smurf said:You go to the computer lab after school. You go to the local library. What you DON'T do is give every kid a free lap top because they can't be bothered to cope with the slight advantage other kids have of being able to eat when using a computer. Does anyone else see this as plain stupidity?
You're kidding, right? First of all, there's no such thing and never will be. Secondly, you're pitting 3000ish technology age youth against a few nerdy types who are going to use Zonecontrol and WPA to try and limit what the kids can do through their wireless routers... I'm putting my money on the kids.Zantra said:But a professionally secured intranet would be hack proof.
Smurf said:Cost of hiring a few new buses to run at afterhours vs. cost of buying every kid a laptop and all those other gadgets.
Damn, you yanks really do run a service economy. Instead of solving problems you just move them around.
Smurf said:You're kidding, right? First of all, there's no such thing and never will be. Secondly, you're pitting 3000ish technology age youth against a few nerdy types who are going to use Zonecontrol and WPA to try and limit what the kids can do through their wireless routers... I'm putting my money on the kids.
But the kids who are going to be that saavy are those who will already have computers at home. Why would they bother spending the time hacking around the school computer security when they can just go home and freely access what they want on their own computer?Smurf said:You're kidding, right? First of all, there's no such thing and never will be. Secondly, you're pitting 3000ish technology age youth against a few nerdy types who are going to use Zonecontrol and WPA to try and limit what the kids can do through their wireless routers... I'm putting my money on the kids.
Zantra said:You're assuming that we're talking about a room full of Kevin Mitnicks. the average kid may be computer savvy but won't be able to get around a checkpoint firewall. And no I'm not talking about zone alarm. I mean a professional setup. But I will agree with you that a lot of school admins underestimate kid's computer knowledge. As far as totally secure, there will always be those out there trying to circumvent the system, just like there will always bank robbers. But we're not closing down all the banks are we?
Moonbear said:Hmm...this made me realize something else. If these kids do wind up learning to get through the firewalls, then maybe they've really learned to use a computer. And those who didn't know how it was done, but saw it done now have a better sense of security vulnerabilities when they go out into the world and start up businesses and hire someone to set up an office intranet...they won't be as oblivious to the security vulnerabilities as many office managers currently are.
Lol... you're joking right? If you were a brainy computer wiz trapped in class and bored for several hours a day with a computer infront of you that you aren't supposed to be able to hack what do you think you'd be doing? And these kids could do it for other kids too in exchange for money or various possible things.Moonie said:But the kids who are going to be that saavy are those who will already have computers at home. Why would they bother spending the time hacking around the school computer security when they can just go home and freely access what they want on their own computer?
That is what I'm arguing. A kid that has to use a computer at school to do all their work may not have a computer at home to be able to continue doing their work. Even if they have a laptop they may not have internet access. Here in California they already want to cut textbook content and replace it with a listing of websites where you can get the information from instead. In someplaces around here they don't even want the kids on campus after school because of the number of fights and amount of drug and gang activity that goes on around them after school is out. Going to the library might be just as much a problem. It may cost money. The only free internet access I have seen at a library in a not very nice neighborhood around here was limited to a half hour.Smurf said:You go to the computer lab after school. You go to the local library. What you DON'T do is give every kid a free lap top because they can't be bothered to cope with the slight advantage other kids have of being able to eat when using a computer. Does anyone else see this as plain stupidity?
Evo said:How about a rule that if you hack into your laptop you get booted back to a regular school? Maybe we need to teach kids that priveleges are earned. Maybe teach them some responsibility?
I didn't see anything about these kids being able to take their laptops home, does anyone know what they're allowing the kids to do?
I think that might be going a bit far.dduardo said:Why don't they just charge them with felonies:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/12343436.htm
Yeah, but then we could also say that for safe cracking and other illegal activities that require some thought and skill.TheStatutoryApe said:I think that might be going a bit far.
And really if they are smart enough to crack a well designed security system they should be in a higher level learning environment not booted into a lower level one.
Send them to military school! That should teach those scrawny geeks not to hack the school-owned laptops.Evo said:How about a rule that if you hack into your laptop you get booted back to a regular school? Maybe we need to teach kids that priveleges are earned. Maybe teach them some responsibility?