Thermodynamics: A Crucial Foundation for Understanding Physics and Everyday Life

In summary, the textbook Kittel and Kroemer was helpful, but the derivative section of the course was difficult.
  • #1
Entropia
1,474
1
ever taken thermodynamics?

if so, as a chemistry course (i.e, physical chemistry) or as a physics course?

what was it about thermo that gave you difficulties, if any?

what would have made a course in thermodynamics easier for you to learn?

how would you change your thermodynamics textbook?

what would make a good thermodynamics study guide?

i would also love to hear the perspective of people that took thermodynamics in a non-american institution.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Science news on Phys.org
  • #2
I took Engineering Thermodynamics, which besides talking about the laws, discusses thermodynamic cycles, ie the steam engine.

Many fields of study learn about the laws of thermo (I first learned the first law in 8th grade physical science).

As far as problems, I think its very important to get a good handle on the basics of the theory before going into the applications. So the first two weeks of the course is critical. Just the vocabulary can be a hangup: entropy, enthalpy, adiabatic, isentropic, etc.
 
  • #3
Originally posted by russ_watters
As far as problems, I think its very important to get a good handle on the basics of the theory before going into the applications. So the first two weeks of the course is critical. Just the vocabulary can be a hangup: entropy, enthalpy, adiabatic, isentropic, etc.

I'll concur. The very first time I saw anything about thermo was as a 1-1/2 week module in physics 1. We had just learned about the basic concepts of work and energy, so it hadn't really had a chance to gel yet. Then throw in vocabulary of words which all sound the same with differences relating to concepts that I hadn't completely internalized yet... *shudder*

On the other hand, when I actually took my dedicated 'Thermo' class (Engineering, non M.E., junior level) things went much more smoothly for me. If you "get" the first two or three weeks, the rest of the class is just window dressing.
 
  • #4
<eager to hear a lot more feedback>
 
  • #5
Hmm..Are u a teacher looking for ways to improve the curricilum? Or student looking to understand how to study thermo?

Well, I had a thermo unit in Phyiscs B...I guess the hardest thing (which I only understood a couple weeks before the ap test) is the sign convention with positive work and negative work and positive heat and negative heat...

But, that's a simple course..nothign confusing like college..Havent heard of "enthalpy" or "isentropic" ..
 
  • #6
Thermo and I have a rocky relationship. I got my BS in engineering prior to going to grad school for physics. I took the Engineering thermo, thinking that I would not need to take the Physics thermo as well.

Big mistake.

In my first semester of grad school, I took this nasty course called Statistical Mechanics. I found out that thermo had grown up, and I had not. Believe me, graduate Stat Mech is NOT the place you want to hear about a "partition function" for the very first time. I know from experience.
 
  • #7
At the sophmore/junior level I took different classes and was getting both microscopic (kinetic theory) and macroscopic (basic laws and heat engine stuff) presentations of Thermo simutaneously. It was very difficult to connect the two courses. Then the senior level Thermophysics for physics majors was a first time through for the course Tom is talking about. Tom, without the first time through that I received a statistical Mechanics course would be a real eye opener and incrediably tough. That statistical Themo course was absolutely the toughest course I encountered in all my college career. Perhaps if I followed it up with a graduate level 2nd time through it would have made more sense. As it is, though I enternalized only a small fraction of the material presented, it has given me a very fundamental view and understanding of Thermo.
 
  • #8
I've taken a couple physics courses. Undergrad thermo wasn't hard; the stat mech part was fun, but the thermo part was annoying and boring. Grad stat mech was another story, critical exponents and the renormalization group blew my mind.

I would have benefitted from a better mathematical background at the time I thing... it helps to understand differentials and partials really well, and Legendre transforms too. What I always got hung up on was understanding what was going on with all the different potentials and types of derivatives.
 
  • #9
did anybody use any study guides (other than their textbook) ?

if so, was it even useful?
 
  • #10
I took Thermo just this semester and we spent 2 weeks on all of that derivative stuff and the rest of the time in stat mech. The book we used was Kittel and Kroemer and I like it alot, you can actually do the problems at the end of the chapter with the material they present in the text ( wow! that's a first for physics textbooks ). But if you want to do all of that derivative stuff which is awful and horrible, I think Thermodynamics by Fermi is pretty good and short and Dover publishes it too so its cheap.
 
  • #11
As an undergraduate, I took thermal physics. It was a good class, I leanred a lot in one semester. I only wish I had been more familiar with quantum mechanics before I took it.

I think thermal physics is a completely different subject than engineering thermodynamics. Thermal physics is basically an introduction to statistical mechanics whereas thermodynamics is more along the lines of the science of engines.

In my opinion, the best book for learning the subject of thermal physics is Kittel's Thermal Physics. If someone wanted to go into any of the solid state of chemical physics related fields, I would definitely recommend taking thermal physics.

eNtRopY
 
  • #12
Illuminating --- thermo is a lot like the weather, "...everyone talks about it, but nobody (knows much about/does much with) it."

Anyone feel comfortable with what they learned in their thermo courses? "Comfortable" means confident/competent to apply thermo to everyday problems/questions? Is it a "finished" field --- everything has been done? Nothing more to learn/discover in the field? A formal requirement for science/engineering degrees --- a hurdle to clear and forget?

I get the impression from responses so far in this thread that no one here really understands what they remember from the courses they took.

This really is the physics that is "everything" as opposed to "stamp collecting." You don't get this, you don't ever really get anything. Getting this doesn't guarantee understanding other things, but it is very much a major foundation of physics.
 

1. What is thermodynamics and why is it important?

Thermodynamics is the branch of physics that deals with the relationships between heat, work, energy, and temperature. It is important because it allows us to understand and predict how energy is transferred and transformed, which is crucial in many fields such as engineering, chemistry, and environmental science.

2. What are the laws of thermodynamics?

The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or transformed. The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of a closed system always increases over time. The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero temperature is zero.

3. How do you apply thermodynamics in real life?

Thermodynamics is applied in many aspects of our daily lives, such as in refrigerators, car engines, and power plants. It is also used in designing sustainable energy systems and understanding climate change. Additionally, concepts from thermodynamics are used in chemistry and chemical engineering to optimize reactions and processes.

4. What is the difference between classical and statistical thermodynamics?

Classical thermodynamics is a macroscopic approach that describes the behavior of large systems, while statistical thermodynamics is a microscopic approach that studies the behavior of individual particles in a system. Classical thermodynamics uses laws and equations to analyze and predict system behavior, while statistical thermodynamics uses statistical methods to understand the behavior of a large number of particles.

5. How does thermodynamics relate to other branches of science?

Thermodynamics is closely related to other branches of science, such as chemistry, physics, and engineering. It provides the fundamental principles for understanding energy and its transformations, which are crucial in these fields. For example, thermodynamics is essential in understanding chemical reactions and the behavior of materials at different temperatures and pressures.

Similar threads

  • Thermodynamics
Replies
3
Views
952
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
2
Views
536
Replies
152
Views
4K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
19
Views
1K
  • Quantum Interpretations and Foundations
Replies
18
Views
582
Replies
9
Views
9K
Replies
11
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
517
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
8
Views
16K
  • Science and Math Textbooks
Replies
1
Views
1K
Back
Top