All Caps in Posts; Imperatives

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

I stay on PF for several reasons. (1) Interesting and educational content. (2) Rules to enforce a minimum standard of politeness. (3) No politics or religion. (4) No fringe science. I think PF does a very good job regarding these points.

Having said that, my suggestions concern (2).

My first suggestion concerns the use of all caps. We all know from basic internet etiquette that it's considered not nice to use all caps. It is thought to indicate raising one's voice or even shouting, either in general, or directed toward a particular person or persons.

But I've noticed that it seems acceptable at this time to use all-caps in a restricted way when addressing someone. This seems to me like the last holdout against the anti-shouting rule. I interpret it as someone raising their voice or even shouting at someone they disagree with.

For example, if we disagree with someone, we might type "YOU may think xyz, but that is just YOUR opinion and I think YOU are wrong, etc." One can almost hear the person raising their voice in irritation and maybe jabbing their finger at the person in emphasize.

I propose the following rule. Please do not use all caps in the way I've just described. One can express disagreement without being so aggressive.

My other suggestion concerns a common habit which I admit irritates me a lot, whether it's in real life or online. That is people who think it's fine to give orders. By that I mean saying "do this" or "don't do that" or otherwise giving commands as opposed to making a polite suggestion. Is there a problem with saying "please" if it's a request? Or saying "I suggest" or something along those lines? There are many ways to say something that do not involve what sounds like barking an order at someone.

Please remember that a little courtesy goes a long way in making everything more pleasant for everyone.

I don't have any complaints against anyone I've chatted with. This is more of a general comment. Once again, I congratulate PF for being as good as it is. Very impressive!

Thank you for considering my suggestions.

 

[mfb]

If we add an explicit rule about addressing users with caps, then we also need one for bold, italics, larger text, other fonts, underline, colors, _other_ ways to *highlight* text, and so on. And we need this for addressing users, other people, groups of people, ...
All these text formatting options can be used in helpful ways.

We have civility in the rules already, that is much more general and we don't need 50 explicit rules about post formatting.

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

If we add an explicit rule about addressing users with caps, then we also need one for bold, italics, larger text, other fonts, underline, colors, _other_ ways to *highlight* text, and so on. And we need this for addressing users, other people, groups of people, ...
All these text formatting options can be used in helpful ways.

We have civility in the rules already, that is much more general and we don't need 50 explicit rules about post formatting.

I singled out all caps in the specific way I mentioned, because I've noticed this technique on various chat forums. specifically "YOU" instead of "you." Perhaps it does not need to be a "rule." How about a suggestion people may want to consider?

I really haven't noticed the other things you mentioned. Maybe it's just that I find the use of "YOU" in particular as too aggressive. It just seems like shouting at someone. I don't see how it is helpful.

 

[jtbell]

I've noticed this technique on various chat forums. specifically "YOU" instead of "you."

Do those forums even have the capability for more sophisticated forms of highlighting (boldface, italics, etc.)? I'm old enough to remember plain ASCII terminals, on which you had to show emphasis by devices such as YOU, *you*, or _you_.

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

Do those forums even have the capability for more sophisticated forms of highlighting (boldface, italics, etc.)? I'm old enough to remember plain ASCII terminals, on which you had to show emphasis by devices such as YOU, *you*, or _you_.

Fair point. I guess how we interpret such things can be subjective. Anyway, I won't lose any sleep over it.

P.S. unfortunately text chat can be misleading. We don't see the other person, we don't hear their intonations, we often can't sense their mood, etc. This is why we have emoticons, although they can be more annoying sometimes than blinking text. Sigh. Anyway, I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill, sorry if I did.

 

[jtbell]

I used to spend a lot of time on Usenet newsgroups, which were a plain-ASCII medium. Even there, using all-caps was considered "shouting." and the other methods of emphasis that I mentioned were preferred. Using all-caps for more than emphasizing an isolated word was considered "odd." Does anyone else remember Robert E. McElwaine?

UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED, ESPECIALLY to COMPUTER BULLETIN BOARDS.

 

[russ_watters]

But I've noticed that it seems acceptable at this time to use all-caps in a restricted way when addressing someone. This seems to me like the last holdout against the anti-shouting rule. I interpret it as someone raising their voice or even shouting at someone they disagree with.

For example, if we disagree with someone, we might type "YOU may think xyz, but that is just YOUR opinion and I think YOU are wrong, etc." One can almost hear the person raising their voice in irritation and maybe jabbing their finger at the person in emphasize.

Uhhh...I'm not sure what "all caps" means to you, but to me it means ALL caps. A single word in caps is not "all caps". Odds are good you've never actually seen a post in ALL CAPS on PF because we usually delete such posts.
http://netiquette.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_number_2_-_Do_not_use_all_caps

So:
I don't use "all caps", but I do often capitalize a word for emphasis and I don't; feel like applying bold or otherwise *emphasizing* it, such as when I'm on my phone. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

Uhhh...I'm not sure what "all caps" means to you, but to me it means ALL caps. A single word in caps is not "all caps". Odds are good you've never actually seen a post in ALL CAPS on PF because we usually delete such posts.
http://netiquette.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_number_2_-_Do_not_use_all_caps

So:
I don't use "all caps", but I do often capitalize a word for emphasis and I don't; feel like applying bold or otherwise *emphasizing* it, such as when I'm on my phone. There is nothing wrong with that.

For clarity I gave an example of exactly what I mean. (See Post #1). I mean using certain words in all capitals in a specific context. Specifically when addressing a person one is disagreeing with and using "YOU" and "YOUR". I'm not sure why it is necessary to emphasize in this way. I think people tend to understand it as shouting at someone, which is not nice. At least that is how I interpret it. Therefore I would not do it to anyone else. Just a suggestion. Sorry if it offends anyone.

 

[russ_watters]

For clarity I gave an example of exactly what I mean. (See Post #1). I mean using certain words in all capitals in a specific context.

So again: even setting aside the contradiction between your definition and your description, I don't agree that this is a problem. Summary:

• "All caps" is bad.
• What you describe is not "all caps" and is not bad.

Specifically when addressing a person one is disagreeing with and using "YOU" and "YOUR". I'm not sure why it is necessary to emphasize in this way.

Well, one example I can think of is if the person misuses "we" (applies it too broadly) and you want to emphasize that it isn't really "we" it is just YOU.

I think people tend to understand it as shouting at someone, which is not nice. At least that is how I interpret it.

Your interpretation is NOT correct. Emphasizing one word in a sentence is NOT the same as shouting at someone. Think about, physically, how hard that would be to accomplish. How hard it would be to be speaking in a normal tone of voice and then change to a shout and back to a normal tone of voice in one word.

Sorry if it offends anyone.

Not offended, just trying to explain that your understanding of what it means is not correct.

 

[Borg]

Emphasizing one word in a sentence is NOT the same as shouting at someone.

I totally agree with this. While I limit my use of this kind of emphasis, I do use it in professional emails when I want to make something clear that it should NOT be done a certain way. Especially when the consequences of doing otherwise would be bad. I tend to use it more often in notes to myself.

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

What definition do you refer to that conflicts with my example?

My use of the term "all caps" to refer to a single word, as well as the association with shouting, is quite normal and is well documented. Of course it can also refer to a group of words, or to a sentence or even a complete body of text. Therefore I provided a very clear example, which should leave absolutely no doubt what I mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps

This article is actually quite interesting. Perhaps people will read the entire article and then think about it. I have certainly learned some interesting facts from it.

Even if a person does not intend anything harsh by typing "YOU" instead of "you" it can definitely come across that way. As I mentioned, that's the way it comes across to me, in the specific situation I described.

Communication is not merely what we intend to express, but how the other person interprets what you say. What we say may seem quite harmless and appropriate to ourselves, but not to readers. This is a hazard of text chat in particular. Therefore it pays to be extra careful.

As far as the physical act of shouting one word from anger, excitement, or simply to get someone's attention, I have seen it many times myself. Am I really the only one? Is this a difficult and rare phenomenon? Of course not. For example, it can be an oratorical technique. I have tried it myself, just for fun. I did not experience any difficulties in doing so. Parents have also been known to shout an important word in the middle of a sentence. It's not hard at all. I have definitely witnessed parents doing it. Teachers as well. But I won't go into that now.

In any case, in text chat we can certainly shout a single word in a figurative sense, even if some find it difficult to do in real life. But as I've explained, there is no difficulty for at least some people in real life. Therefore, I think the argument about not being able to shout a single word using all-caps does not hold water. It may be a stand-alone word, the first word in a sentence, a middle word, or the last word. It's all physically and textually possible.

Finally, here is an article which warns about the unprofessional nature of using all-caps. I like the phrases "Adding Emphasis Without Shouting (and Embarrassing Yourself)" and "Emphasis Will Always be Over-Emphasized!"

https://www.businessemailetiquette.com/is-this-shouting-too/

I really don't like spending time on this subject. I was surprised anyone would even respond in such a forceful way. Let people go ahead and use all caps. Use red letters, italics, big fonts, and blinking. But maybe when shouting, use a smiley icon to indicate it's a happy kind of shouting, or emphasis, or whatever. That's why emoticons were invented. I don't care if people use a huge, blinking, garishly colored emoticon.

P.S. here's another interesting article from a well-known publication on this apparently controversial topic.

https://newrepublic.com/article/117390/netiquette-capitalization-how-caps-became-code-yelling

"In 1984, one user had to explain: “if it's in caps I'm trying to YELL!” "

 

[Stephen Tashi]

Using all caps was quite common in the days of computer languages that did not distinguish between upper and lowercase letters. Programmers in those languages often didn't bother to use lower case letters when they typed notes to people.

I think computer "bulletin boards" preceeded the USENET and the early ones may not have recognized enough characters to include lowercase.

Ham radio operators who habitually used Morse code had no reason to distinguish between upper and lower case letters and they often wrote in all-caps when they began using the internet.

The modern reaction to seeing all caps is "That person is yelling", but an older reaction is "That's some old obsolete guy typing".

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

I was wondering why some people type certain words like *this* for emphasis. I think it looks strange, and it's another example in my opinion of what my middle school English teacher would call "amateurish writing technique," as well as not being correct English punctuation. But some people like asterisks as alternatives to all caps.

Here's someone who dislikes all caps.

"Capitalizing whole words gives the impression that you're shouting.
THAT'S UNNECESSARY!"

I agree totally.

I'm not the only one who thinks the asterisks are annoying.

"**Nothing** **irritates** **me** **more** **than** **asterisks**
**placed** **around** **words** **to** **emphasize** **them**.
**It** **only** **makes** **the** **text** **more** **difficult**
**to** **read**.
**David** **Pinedo**
hpfcla!dp"

But other people love a bit of everything. Here's the link to the discussion.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/net.flame/VbghoeOfwyI/E2mClWj2GV8J

I think I've supplied plenty of evidence at this stage that my comments on 'all caps' were nothing unusual, and leave it at that, unless of course someone wants to continue this discussion.

 

[Stephen Tashi]

I was wondering why some people type certain words like *this* for emphasis.

Old obsolete guys do it.

The possibilities for typographical emphasis used to be limited. Before XML and modern internet forum software, the typographical options for emphasizing a word were even fewer than using a standard typewriter. On a standard typewriter, you could underline words if you were willing to do some extra carriage shifting.

Modern internet forum software is quite an improvement over the old days - except in regards to putting a double space after the period at the end of a sentence.

 

[symbolipoint]

Fully capitalized words or phrases can be done for accentuations, among ordinarily cased text characters.

 

[Tom.G]

Oh My, such a TEMPEST of a thread in our little teapot!

 

[Bystander]

except in regards to putting a double space after the period at the end of a sentence.

Hear. Hear.

 

[TeethWhitener]

Old obsolete guys do it.

...I do this all the time and I'm only "midway through our life's journey," as Dante would say. As @russ_watters pointed out, some of us tend to use asterisks or caps when we're on the phone and don't want to monkey around with the forum formatting. I also tend to prefer italics to bold for emphasis, but then again, italics are tough to distinguish from regular type in certain fonts, so a lot of the time I end up having to bold and italicize, which I suppose only exacerbates the problem.

@Aufbauwerk 2045 has a point in that the intent of emphasis can be very difficult to discern in writing. I dunno, I think the responsibility for interpretation lies with both parties. If you write emphasis with your mind focused on how you want to be interpreted, you'll write it properly. If you read emphasis with your mind focused (in good faith) on how the writer wants to be interpreted, you'll read it properly.

 

[LCKurtz]

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE POSTED ANYTHING IN ALL CAPS AND WILL BE THE LAST. NOT BECAUSE I CONSIDER IT TO BE YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO READ AND I WANT TO MAKE THAT POINT. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A NOVEL OR A PARAGRAPH IN ANY BOOK THAT WAS IN ALL CAPS? I WILL NEVER READ A POST THAT IS IN ALL CAPS. I WON'T EVEN RE-READ THIS POST TO CHECK IT OVER BECAUSE IT IS SO ANNOYING. PROGRAMMERS KNOW THIS. USING ALL LOWER CASE IN PROGRAMMING INCREASES ACCURACY AND PRODUCTIVITY. NEVER USE ALL CAPS!

Notice how your eyes relax when you read this line. It really matters.

 

[davenn]

I see no issue with the occasional word to be either CAPPED or bold to emphasise a point. I personally prefer bolded words,
so that the important parts stand out to the person to whom I am replying.
It's when blocks of text, full sentences, or god forbid, full posts as the fun one above occur that something needs to be said to that poster...
That is not the way you should be typing.

For example, if we disagree with someone, we might type "YOU may think xyz, but that is just YOUR opinion and I think YOU are wrong, etc." One can almost hear the person raising their voice in irritation and maybe jabbing their finger at the person in emphasize

Well, sometimes there are some people that just need to be told strongly that they are wrong when they continue to argue the point
from a totally incorrect standpoint. The message just doesn't seem to sink in when you respond nicely to them telling them that they
have got the incorrect understanding even after several attempts. The responder just has to make it a bit plainer to the other person.cheers
Dave

 

[symbolipoint]

HOW ABOUT LIKE THIS?

 

[davenn]

HOW ABOUT LIKE THIS?

 

[Stavros Kiri]

If we add an explicit rule about addressing users with caps, then we also need one for bold, italics, larger text, other fonts, underline, colors, _other_ ways to *highlight* text, and so on.

It's not the same. That's not what he means. However, I too think there's no need for another rule. Emphatic ways are sometimes useful and important, and they have to be up to the language user. I even think that sometimes falsely it's considered yelling.