- #211
M. Gaspar
- 679
- 1
Originally posted by pelastration
yah ... I do it always with Chinese sticks.
...that's why they're so thin !
Originally posted by pelastration
yah ... I do it always with Chinese sticks.
Originally posted by maximus
conscious is a byproduct of a series of evolutionary events that took place on earth. why are humans always trying to personify inanimate objects by giving them a concious. i think we simply cannot understand what it truly means to be 'unconcious'.
Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Are you saying that the evolution of consciousness in the Universe is an "accident"?
I say there's a "bit" of consciousness in EVERYTHING -- elementary particles, galaxies, the works !
If "matter" (i.e., bound-up energy) evolves via EXISTING INGREDIENTS ...perhaps CONSCIOUSNESS is an inherent , pre-existing "ingredient", too.
Originally posted by Mentat
That's what a good majority of Evolutionary Biologists will tell you (if not all of them).
And might one ask why you think this way?
Then what is the purpose of complex collections of neurons (brains)?
Originally posted by Iacchus32
I have the will to live! ... Yes, but where did that will come from? ... Out of non-existence?
And yet "the fact" that I'm conscious tells me everything, even where I came from ...Originally posted by heusdens
A property of matter inherited by 3 billion years of evolution.
Don't you know what consciousness is? Aren't you "aware" of "the fact" that I'm talking to you? If you are, then doesn't that suggest you are conscious?Originally posted by Alexander
Define "conscious" (to make sure that we and you know what we are talking about, and also to be sure that we talk about the same animal).
Originally posted by Alexander
Define "conscious" (to make sure that we and you know what we are talking about, and also to be sure that we talk about the same animal).
But isn't consciousness also a property? The property that one "knows" one exists?Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Thanks for the lead. Had much about "symmetry"...a peripheral interest.
Here's what I'm talking about with regard to consciousness:
Consciousness is a "substance" -- albeit massless -- that exists "within" (as an integral part of) -- all matter...from elementary particles to large dynamic coherent systems like galaxies...or the Universe Itself.
You may dismiss this proposition as unfounded and unproveable...but given a few more posts, I could make a reasonable case.
Originally posted by Iacchus32
But isn't consciousness also a property? The property that one "knows" one exists?
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Or maybe consciousness is a "binding element" which draws attention to itself, for instance in the example of a rock, where the rock says -- through our conscious awareness of it -- "Hey, I am a rock."
Really, all I know is that I am conscious, and it belies the fact that I have a soul.
This is not hard for me to prove, because I "know" that I exist. This is the ground of my being, which is my soul (identity).Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Say what?
How does having consciousness "belie the fact" that one has a soul? Taking my speculations a bit farther, I could say that "spirit" is a "substance" too -- like consciousness and baryonic matter -- which ALSO exists as PART of Everything That Is.
Of course, spirit or soul is even HARDER to prove -- or even TALK ABOUT -- than consciousness. At least we can EXPERIENCE our OWN consciousness more or less "objectively"...but spirit? Its PURELY SUBJECTIVE.
The Father (Mind) ... The Son (Flesh/Heart) ... The Holy Ghost (Soul) ... These are the three components to existence which, should be addressed as One (not three).Still, I prefer to believe that there is a "spiritual component" to the Universe...tho I'm not prepared to characterize what it may be. Perhaps "spirit" is the EMOTIONAL component of the Universe, whereas "matter" is Its PHYSICALITY and "consciousness" is It's MIND.
Yes, spirit is the element of the soul, which is tied to our "emotional state" -- "of being." And yet spirit also "conveys" consciousness.Perhaps on another thread we can discuss the "substance of spirit"...but I'd personally rather wait until I feel I have completely made my case regarding consciousness
Okee dokee ...To do this, I will be responding to some month-old posts which I have printed out from SEVERAL threads. All I need is TIME. Good luck with that.
Originally posted by Iacchus32
. Really, all I know is that I am conscious, and it belies the fact that I have a soul.
Originally posted by Iacchus32
This is not hard for me to prove, because I "know" that I exist. This is the ground of my being, which is my soul (identity).
The Father (Mind) ... The Son (Flesh/Heart) ... The Holy Ghost (Soul) ... These are the three components to existence which, should be addressed as One (not three).
Yes, spirit is the element of the soul, which is tied to our "emotional state" -- "of being." And yet spirit also "conveys" consciousness.
Okee dokee ...
Markopoulou Kalamara can explain the structure of spacetime. In particular, she argues that the abstract loops can produce one of the most distinctive features of Einstein's theory-- light cones, regions of spacetime within which light, or anything else, can reach a particular event.Originally posted by Alexander
So, WHAT are you talking about (and for so long)?
Originally posted by pelastration
http://home.sprynet.com/~jowolf/essay.htm#THE%20WHOLE%20AND%20ITS%20PARTS:%20THE%20HOLON [Broken]
Originally posted by Alexander
What I am saying - define the object of discussion.
WHAT is being discussed?
This must be better: http://home.sprynet.com/~jowolf/essay.htm [Broken]Originally posted by M. Gaspar
Pelastration:
I couldn't "get there from here"...couldn't connect.
Is your response to Alexander enough for me to know?
Originally posted by M. Gaspar
What's YOUR take on consciousness?
Good Luck! Now all you have to do is try and stay awake and remain conscious! [zz)] [zz)]Originally posted by Alexander
My definition of consciouseness is as follows. Consciouseness is active state of neurons responsible for speach (including thoughts which are just activity of speach neurons but without engaging motor neurons of throat muscles), or of neurons responsible for hearing, or of neurons responsible for vision.
Active state of vast majority of the rest neurons is what we cal "sub-consciouseness" (information processing is their responsibility, by the way - as in any other animal brain). Inactive state of first group of neurons is what we call "sleep", inactivity of almost all neurons except resonsible for basics (respiration, basic chemical balance, etc) is what we call "unconcsiousness".
Yes, of course. The hypothesis of "soul" was discarded long ago due to lack of supporting facts.Originally posted by Iacchus32
Ever consider that there might be an entity or "a soul" that goes along with being conscious?
What do you mean, unproven? This is what I learned in biology class in high school. It is in textbooks (chapter "Central nervous system" - about how brain works).Originally posted by akhenaten
Second, your 'definition' of consciousness appears to be an unproven explanation of what consciousness is or what causes it.
...Isn't this the equivalent of starting a discussion on the issue of whether racism is ethically wrong, by defining racism as 'the morally wrong discrimination between people on the basis of race'?
Originally posted by Alexander
What do you mean, unproven? This is what I learned in biology class in high school. It is in textbooks (chapter "Central nervous system" - about how brain works).
Originally posted by Alexander
Exactly. You clearly see the point - once definition is there, the discussion may no longer be needed (because racizm is immoral by definition of rasizm) - and plenty of disk space can be saved for more meaningfull issues than talking about undefined objects.
I guess I'm more concerned with the "quality of consciousness," as this is what concerns me "specifically."Originally posted by Alexander
Yes, of course. The hypothesis of "soul" was discarded long ago due to lack of supporting facts.
What do you think I invent my own words? If you don't understand a word, trying looking it up in the dictionary. These are all "standard" words that you can find in any dictionary by the way.Originally posted by Alexander
You use so many undefined words that I don't understand what exactly you are saying.
Am not familiar with Nagel? And are you saying consciousness is the "recognition factor" that exists between organisms of a like kind?Originally posted by akhenaten
Would anyone agree that Nagel's description may have some use as a working definition: that consciousness is what an organism possesses when there is something that it is like to be itself?
The concept of a conscious universe suggests that the universe itself is conscious and aware, rather than just being a collection of unconscious matter. This idea proposes that the universe has a purpose and that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of it.
The study of a conscious universe is a complex and ongoing process. Scientists are exploring various theories and conducting experiments to understand the nature and potential of consciousness in the universe. Some approaches include studying the brain, quantum mechanics, and the concept of panpsychism.
While there is no definitive evidence yet, some scientists argue that certain phenomena, such as the observer effect in quantum mechanics, suggest the presence of consciousness in the universe. Additionally, the complexity and order of the universe may also be seen as evidence of a conscious design.
If proven, the concept of a conscious universe could have significant implications for our understanding of the universe and our place in it. It could also impact our understanding of consciousness and its role in the universe, potentially leading to new scientific and philosophical discoveries.
There is currently no consensus among scientists about the concept of a conscious universe. Some argue that it is a valid and promising theory, while others remain skeptical and believe that more evidence is needed to support it. As research and understanding continue to evolve, we may gain a better understanding of the possibility of a conscious universe.