Preserving causality in the most general way.

In summary, the conversation revolved around the concept of preserving causality in various scenarios, particularly in terms of the speed of light and its implications for locality. There was also discussion on the role of information and observers in defining locality and the potential for disagreements and interactions between observers. The main question posed was how to create a general transformation that preserves microcausality, and whether it is possible to use multiple light cones in the same space-time point while still preserving causality. Overall, the conversation was focused on conceptual ideas rather than realistic physics.
  • #1
MTd2
Gold Member
2,028
25
I was trying to think in general means to localy preserve causality. By "means", it means to include (or not) varying speed of light and faster than light sign propagation. By varying speed of light, it means that light speed can localy depend on the most generical parameters you can get.

Don't think in terms of special relativity and space time, just any general cases 3 and 4 manifolds.

Go as crazy as you can get, as long as you are mathematicly consistent. Don't worry about trying to get realistic physics right now.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Thats a question with a large literature attached to it and depends who you ask.

Typically you want to ensure that microcausality is ensured (a statement about commutators of operators vanishing outside of the light cone), but you can make it more specific in some contexts.

Usually if the classical theory has a nice causal structure, it implies the quantum picture ensures microcausality, but that can be a little controversial as well.
 
  • #3
I admit I didn't quite understand the objective of the post. Are you inviting to brainstorming??

Here's a quick&dirty one! focused on the conceptual part.

My take on this, is via what's measurable from an inside observer. And if one starts to define the notion of locality, as referring not to spacetime, but to the information space, then a measure of locality can be thought of as a measure of distance between two observers information. As a kind of information divergence.

Then it follows from the choice of abstraction, the any non-local observations simply aren't likely. Because the observation itself, implies projection onto a local observer. (Where local refers to observerID, not to spacetime "points").

Then the remaining problem is that different observer while maintain a sort of local causality, may totally disagree with other observers. And IMO, this disagreement or "inconsistency" manifests itself as physical interactions and "forces" between observers. (And ultimately between subsystems of the universe, since any subsystem can be abstracted to an observer, that observes "the rest of the universe")

The environment (defined as the closest neighbourhood or interacting observers) puts a selective pressure on every observer, to either by internal re-equilibrations come into agreement, or to disintegrate. A kind of self-preservation.

In this way, to have confidence observations of non-local phenonomena, is to estalibsh with high confidence, that an unlikely event has occured. It somehow contains an internal tension, which I choose to interpret as physical interactions/forces. However inertia probably prevents instant changes. Of course, if an unlikely event is repeatadly observerd! then anyone who is updating his priors will see that the result of this is deformation of the priors. I think it's the same with non-locality and locality.

Edit: Maybe analogous to the idea with gauge invariance that interactions are sort of identified with differences in gauge choices. So from a third observer observing the interactions between many observers, he sees gauge invariance, but still notes that the relative gauges inside the system are related to interactions.

It seems to suggest that there is no gague invariance in the "inside view" (from withing the interaction), but only from an outside view (a weakly coupled observer)??

/Fredrik
 
Last edited:
  • #4
Hmm,

Let's then say that I am considering a non-quantum theory, to make matters simpler. I am also not concerned with the nature of information, interactions, or anything that is realistic, except for the fact that it preserves microlocality.

So, I will say something that I have in mind. Galilean space and time and mikowski space-time are both microcausaly causal. Yet, on galilean space, the speed of light is infinte, that is, it is as if the light-cone has an angle /theta of 180º of aperture.

So, how, or what is the most general transformation can one make, by preserving microcauality?

Besides, by preserving microcausality, that, can I simultaneously, in the same space time point, use 2 light-cones? 3-light cones? a finite number of light cones? A continuous of number of them?

And yes, I want to brainstorm :).
 

Related to Preserving causality in the most general way.

1. What is causality?

Causality refers to the relationship between cause and effect, where one event (the cause) leads to or influences another event (the effect). It is the fundamental principle behind the laws of physics and is essential in understanding the natural world.

2. Why is preserving causality important?

Preserving causality is important because it allows us to understand and predict the behavior of complex systems. Without causality, events would occur without any discernible reason, making it impossible to make sense of the world around us.

3. How can causality be preserved?

Causality can be preserved by following the laws of physics, which dictate that cause must always precede effect. Additionally, scientists use various methods such as experiments and mathematical models to understand and describe causal relationships in different systems.

4. What is the most general way to preserve causality?

The most general way to preserve causality is through the use of mathematics and logic. By using these tools, scientists can create models and theories that accurately describe the causal relationships in various systems, from the microscopic level of particles to the macroscopic level of the universe.

5. What are the implications of not preserving causality?

Not preserving causality can have significant consequences, including the breakdown of our understanding of the natural world and the inability to make accurate predictions about the future. It can also lead to confusion and misunderstanding in various fields such as science, philosophy, and ethics.

Similar threads

  • Beyond the Standard Models
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • Beyond the Standard Models
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • Quantum Interpretations and Foundations
4
Replies
138
Views
5K
  • Beyond the Standard Models
2
Replies
60
Views
5K
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
51
Views
2K
  • Beyond the Standard Models
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • Beyond the Standard Models
Replies
29
Views
5K
Back
Top