Is calculus just a game to show off?

[ram1024]

what purpose does that serve. It's exactly this type of behavior that leads me to believe that calculus people are stuck-up self deluded fools.

Calculus users catch-phrase handbook
"Don't challenge my beliefs because I'm right and you're wrong"
"Everyone else believes what I do, you're wrong"
"I have a PhD in Electrical Engineering i am smarter than you so you are wrong"

i came to this board because i thought i'd find smart people willing to learn, but it's just the same closed minded egotistical jerks everywhere else.

very very sad.

in parting:

But Since that is a convergernt series, Math says that it DOES reach the end after an infinite number of steps.

you can't even PROVE that because you can't calculate out to infinity. you're just blindly accepting that because it's convenient. but i CAN prove that no matter how many times you cut you ARE left with a non-zero value. it is both actually and logically true.

 

[matt grime]

Well, this is unexplored territory for me (this forum), but I feel mathematically that I can unequivocally call you an uneducated idiot (seeinga s you brought these terms). Because you aren't prepared to learn any of the definitions of the objects involved I might wish to call you worse. So when you've taken a basic course in, well, any subject, try again, because quite frankly you look like an ignorant dickhead.

 

[Hurkyl]

i came to this board because i thought i'd find smart people willing to learn, but it's just the same closed minded egotistical jerks everywhere else.

There are smart people willing to learn here, and in part it's precisely because we moderate the threads with closed-minded egotistical jerks.


(brief pause to allow that to sink in)


Go back and check the thread; you are the only person who stated an intent to be closed-mined:

i'm not budging on this one

Anyways, as I stated, everyone but you agreed you were wrong, and you refused to consider that you may be wrong, so there really doesn't appear to be any point to letting the thread continue. Of course, if you (or someone else) can convince me that it would be productive, I'd be happy to reopen it.

 

[chroot]

This is interesting, however, for one reason: I've never before seen a person assert that there's a calculus user conspiracy against him/her. Normally it us physicists that get such scathing criticism.

- Warren

 

[matt grime]

I'm an algebraist (at the moment) amd I always feel like you analysts have it in for us.

 

[Integral]

I recently engaged in a similar discussion on Extremetech forums. I encountered someone who was arguing that 1<>.999... who further claimed to have Math degree. Initially I went so far as to present the possibility that he was simply lying about his degree, further conversation convinced me otherwise. It appears that he got a math degree without EVER having a course in Real Analysis! I did not think this was possible. My path was Applied Math, Real Analysis is as close to Pure Math as I got, could it be possible that one can get a degree in Pure Math where you never have to take an Applied course like Real Analysis?

 

[ram1024]

Anyways, as I stated, everyone but you agreed you were wrong, and you refused to consider that you may be wrong, so there really doesn't appear to be any point to letting the thread continue. Of course, if you (or someone else) can convince me that it would be productive, I'd be happy to reopen it.

Normally i am uninclined towards name calling but it does seem like you're unwilling to let the opposition have his say "lest the truth be known" which is just ... <censoring self> bad.

Calculus User Catch-Phrase
"yay i kiss butt for moderator priveledges so i can lock down threads that threaten my fragile peace of mind"

do the right thing and unlock the thread. do you want people to think you're a coward?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=22971

 

[chroot]

ram,

That's got to be one of the funniest posts I've ever seen on pf. Way to go!

- Warren

 

[ram1024]

well i had initially written what was to be an apology for my rash outburst and rude words, but i thought better and deleted it.

i'm the victim here :|

in any case i don't think that i should have to beg to have this discussion free of oppression and censorship. this should be a freely given consideration to anyone posting here (within the boundaries of posting stuff that doesn't offend people, porn profanity etc)

glad you got a laugh, chroot. if that's sarcasm i'll come cut you though... :D

 

[Integral]

i'm the victim here :|

Far from it.

If you think your current attitude is going to get the thread unlocked you are even a bigger fool then your posts make you out to be. If you want the thread unlocked you will need to say something to the effect.

"I don't know Sh1t about the real number line, can you guys help me learn"

This is a close approximation to the actual state of affairs. Unfortunately you live under the DELUSION that you do know something about the Real Numbers, until you change this falsely held opinion there is no point it talking about the matter.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Calculus users catch-phrase handbook
"Don't challenge my beliefs because I'm right and you're wrong"
"Everyone else believes what I do, you're wrong"
"I have a PhD in Electrical Engineering i am smarter than you so you are wrong"

Wow- I totally need a copy of that handbook. We didn't learn any of these in class. Just differential equations and stuff.

 

[Integral]

Wow- I totally need a copy of that handbook. We didn't learn any of these in class. Just differential equations and stuff.

I think this book is only sold to Business school students who transfer in from Engineering after flunking freshman calculus.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I think this book is only sold to Business school students who transfer in from Engineering after flunking freshman calculus.

LOL! That explains it.

 

[krab]

In any subject area, there are those who know it and those who are ignorant. Of the latter, there are those who have sufficient humility to learn, and those who don't have it. Of the latter, there are those who know how bow out of an argument graciously, and those who don't. Every time I run across a person posting to these fora who is in this latter sub-sub-subset, I put him/her on my ignore list. Life's too short.

 

[meister]

The .999...=1 posts are banned on pretty much every other forum on the internet, I think.

It's always refreshing to be reminded why.

 

[ram1024]

The .999...=1 posts are banned on pretty much every other forum on the internet, I think.

It's always refreshing to be reminded why.

See? Conspiracy? i think SO

go through and read my thread. I came to learn, i came to teach, i came to find the root of the indoctrined "belief" in something that seems so obviously false.

i didn't lock anyone's thread, you guys are more unwilling to learn than me. afraid i might be right.

somewhere along the line someone in math made assumptions as to the nature of infinity and said "let these be true" and then built upon that foundation and proceeded to forget that he never measured infinity in the first place.

besides what purpose does it serve to have 2 decimal equavalents for the same number? proliferation of confusion?

pure stupidity and egotistical posturing.

And Integral I'm not going to beg anyone to have this discussion. that's such a ludicrous proposition you can just eat me. I came into this forums for a civil discussion and every response i get is dripping with disdain. you're full of yourself, take a look in the mirror and realize what a bad person you are.

meh. good luck with your lies.

 

[Hurkyl]

I came to learn

No you didn't. You steadfastly refused to learn. Remember saying:

i'm not budging on this one

?

somewhere along the line someone in math made assumptions as to the nature of infinity and said "let these be true" and then built upon that foundation and proceeded to forget that he never measured infinity in the first place.

Then people further down the line figured out how to put these theories on a rigorous foundation. But, of course, you've made it obvious you don't want to hear any of that; you never got past the introduction in that reference you linked of someone who "agreed" with you, and you didn't read my post giving (most of) the technical definition of a decimal number.

besides what purpose does it serve to have 2 decimal equavalents for the same number? proliferation of confusion?

Because it allows the decimals to serve as a model of the real numbers. For example, in the real numbers, if x/3 = y/3, then x = y, and it just so happens that, in the decimals, 1/3 = [itex]0.\bar{9}[/itex]/3.

But, in order so that each real number has a unique decimal expansion, occasionally one will forbid decimals from ending in [itex]\bar{0}[/itex], and occasionally one will forbid decimals from ending in [itex]\bar{9}[/itex]; I've seen both of these variants used in practice.

I came into this forums for a civil discussion and every response i get is dripping with disdain.

Act like a crackpot and you'll get treated like one. Actually, you got a very fair response; people actually discussed reasons why they disagreed with you, and presented reasons why they believed what they did. What more can you ask for?

 

[meister]

See? Conspiracy? i think SO

It's hardly a conspiracy.

It's just that a select few people seem hilariously unwilling to consider the possibility that they might be wrong. Ever consider that possibility?

 

[holly]

Name-callling is not a valid part of such a discussion...
Sarcasm is not a valid part...
Introducing "red herring" arguments is invalid...
Selectively faulting the person one disagrees with while exhibiting the same behavior is invalid...
Baiting is invalid...
Beating a dead horse is unwise...
Responding in kind to wretched behavior is unwise.


Science Persons, please keep your heads. Please keep PF a welcome island of tolerance, civility, and impeccable argument in this unfair and upsetting world.

 

[russ_watters]

In any subject area, there are those who know it and those who are ignorant. Of the latter, there are those who have sufficient humility to learn, and those who don't have it. Of the latter, there are those who know how bow out of an argument graciously, and those who don't.

See, the thing is, everyone has been on both sides of those. I vividly remember arguing with my high school calculus teacher on several issues. The difference is I eventually swallowed my pride and got over it (not without much pain, I assure you). Most people do, but unfortunately some do not. The process by which this happens is called maturity.

 

[Integral]

I believe that every student of the sciences has at some point been faced with scientific facts which contradicted preconceived notions. It remains a defining moment in my life as memorable as Kennedy's assignation or 911. I was doing an experiment studying magnetic hysteresis of iron using a ballistic galvanometer and a Rowland's Ring, when I realized that according to my long held model of how magnetic fields induce current my apparatus could not work. Yet I continued to gather data, it did work.

I took my problem to the prof, he stood me at the blackboard staring at Faraday's law and helped me get a grasp on the meaning of a changing flux. It seemed that the Earth shook as my long held model came tumbling down. I had gained a new level of understanding.

 

[ram1024]

No you didn't. You steadfastly refused to learn. Remember saying:

go ahead and take it out of context. you're a stooge

infinitely repeating decimals can only be approximated as fractions because of the inclusion of infinity in their nature.

i'm not budging on this one

add narrow vision to your closemindedness.

and you didn't read my post giving (most of) the technical definition of a decimal number.

cut your crap, you never gave me a chance to respond so eat me.

Because it allows the decimals to serve as a model of the real numbers. For example, in the real numbers, if x/3 = y/3, then x = y, and it just so happens that, in the decimals, 1/3 = [itex]0.\bar{9}[/itex]
/3.

this is a dumb statement, you're comparing x and y to 1 and [itex]0.\bar{9}[/itex] as if they were "variables" and putting them over 3 with an equal sign "proves" it. this doesn't show a reason as to why having two representations for the SAME number in one notational system is helpful. not one bit.

Actually, you got a very fair response; people actually discussed reasons why they disagreed with you, and presented reasons why they believed what they did. What more can you ask for?

a complete discussion? maybe more than "this is what i believe". "this is what i believe" "well my reason is..." <thread locked>

worthless.

 

[Hurkyl]

go ahead and take it out of context.

In what context should I have taken it?

cut your crap, you never gave me a chance to respond so eat me.

Hrm. My post was at 12:06 AM on April 28. The thread was locked at 6:10 PM the same day. You made 6 posts during that time, with the first being 24 minutes after my post and the last being 5 minutes before it was locked.


You didn't have a chance to respond, you say?

a complete discussion? maybe more than "this is what i believe". "this is what i believe" "well my reason is..." <thread locked>

You mean things like "Here are some problems I found with your points"? It has that too.

 

[ram1024]

In what context should I have taken it?

in the context it was given in. i said something then i said that in reference to it RIGHT AFTERWARDS. it's not like i waited 5 days and said it.

Hrm. My post was at 12:06 AM on April 28. The thread was locked at 6:10 PM the same day. You made 6 posts during that time, with the first being 24 minutes after my post and the last being 5 minutes before it was locked.

maybe i didn't see it? it's just me getting gang-banged by 50 people who hate me after all. if you really wanted an answer you could have repeated it. i NEVER outright ignore people, but there is a limit to the amount of conversations i can keep track of at once.

You mean things like "Here are some problems I found with your points"? It has that too.

of which i was getting to my rebuttal which you obviously didn't want to read because you, sir, are a self-serving such-and-such.

 

[ram1024]

wait a freaking minute..

are you talking about https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=198153&postcount=13 that post on the first thread?

because you didn't even ask any questions in that one. what did you want me to say. yes those are nice words?

i read them when you first typed them. i had nothing to offer you as "insight" on that particular example.

if you felt that they should have had special "weight" maybe you should have come to a relevant conclusion within.

so you're really just throwing a hissy fit because i didn't pay attention to you.

i see... i see...

well I'm sorry for that. I'm a busy man, i'll play with you when i have time.

 

[ram1024]

no wait i see now you must be referring to https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=198327&postcount=24 that post

to which i responded to first and immediately in my very next post

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=198489&postcount=27

if you missed that i don't blame you. as you can see I'm fighting off the wolfpack here and the posts can look jumbled.














not. you are a stooge... unlock my thread goober, I'm not done with you yet.

 

[quantumdude]

are you talking about https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=198153&postcount=13 that post on the first thread?

because you didn't even ask any questions in that one. what did you want me to say. yes those are nice words?

I'm sure that Hurkyl doesn't need to ask you any questions. What you are supposed to do is think about it, and try to learn something.

i read them when you first typed them. i had nothing to offer you as "insight" on that particular example.

No kiddin'.

if you felt that they should have had special "weight" maybe you should have come to a relevant conclusion within.

He did. He stated that the equation 0.999...=1 is a consequence of how equality is defined for real numbers. The conclusion couldn't be any easier to spot.

Can't you read?

so you're really just throwing a hissy fit because i didn't pay attention to you.

i see... i see...

No, he's locking your asinine thread because it is a waste of bandwidth.

well I'm sorry for that. I'm a busy man, i'll play with you when i have time.

Do us all a favor: Go play somewhere else.

I'm sure that http://www.sciforums.com will be happy to host your nonsense.

This has gone on long enough.

*Lock-a-doodle-doo*