Help a 19 Year Old Confused Love Newbie Find a Solution

[Valayar]

... but after reading a few topics here, I thought some of you might help me get things cleared.

First, don't pay too much attention to English mistakes, as this is not my mother tongue. I'll do my best.

I love someone. A girl. Although I'm not quite sure what's the exact feeling of love, I suppose it has something to do with what I feel.

This is a very difficult and hurtful situation for me. First, I'm 19, and I've never had a girlfriend. Nor did I kiss anyone before.

I'm a complete newbie to this situation, and I'm feeling greatly depressed every time I try to move on and think about a solution.

I would like to do so many things just to earn a few more minutes with her, however, I don't know how to start.

I've known her for a few years. We are good friends, I guess... That's surely what she thinks, as I haven't been able to utter a single word that would give her a hint about my feelings. I'm far too bad at that little game... Of course during that time she has had a boyfriend, but she has broken up more than a year ago. I can't help thinking I'm an idiot. There is a chance she might say "yes", and I sit here...

These last weeks, things have worsened. When I meet her, I become as dull as a stone, and respond coldly and shortly to any question. This is not me, I'm usually much more cheerful. Why do I act like this on these occasions ? When I'm alone, I spend some long moments thinking about everything I could just tell her. But imagination is limited...

I've been thinking about every possible scenario. One of them was about going to her appartement (I'm at university) and tell her the truth. What would I lose ? Useless street conversations ? A friendship that has become tasteless ?

I've reached a point where I need other people's opinions. Mine is just useless.

That's strange I have to write this on a physics forum. As a matter of fact, this is the only place I found where answers seemed to make sense.

 

[Evo]

Welcome to PF Valayar! Yes, as it turns out, a physics forum *is* one of the best places to get relationship advice.

I hope things work out for you. The relationship guides will be here shortly.

 

[EnumaElish]

When I meet her, I become as dull as a stone, and respond coldly and shortly to any question. This is not me, I'm usually much more cheerful. Why do I act like this on these occasions ?

My guess is because you're angry -- at her, at yourself, and at the situation. "Dull, cold and curt" is what you do to express your anger to her. If my guess is right, that's how you do anger with her.

If you aren't good at that little game, why don't you change the game?

By the way, before "kiss," perhaps think of "seeing a movie" and "arm around her shoulder."

 

[Astronuc]

I reiterate Evo's welcome - Welcome to PF, Valayar!

I'm far too bad at that little game...

It's not a game, although many seem to view it as such.

I take it that one has known the young lady for some time.

If she does not currently have a boyfriend, then ask her out for coffee, or lunch, and just talk to her. Do it as a friendly gesture without expectation of being nothing more than friends.

When I meet her, I become as dull as a stone, and respond coldly and shortly to any question.

Not angry, but seeminly one is perhaps somewhat shy, unsure, self-conscious, and/or anxious - mainly due to lack of experience in interacting with a woman (or person of the opposite gender as the case may be) for whom one has some feelings of affection.

It happens to everyone!

 

[heman]

... but after reading a few topics here, I thought some of you might help me get things cleared.

First, don't pay too much attention to English mistakes, as this is not my mother tongue. I'll do my best.

I love someone. A girl. Although I'm not quite sure what's the exact feeling of love, I suppose it has something to do with what I feel.

This is a very difficult and hurtful situation for me. First, I'm 19, and I've never had a girlfriend. Nor did I kiss anyone before.

I'm a complete newbie to this situation, and I'm feeling greatly depressed every time I try to move on and think about a solution.

I would like to do so many things just to earn a few more minutes with her, however, I don't know how to start.

I've known her for a few years. We are good friends, I guess... That's surely what she thinks, as I haven't been able to utter a single word that would give her a hint about my feelings. I'm far too bad at that little game... Of course during that time she has had a boyfriend, but she has broken up more than a year ago. I can't help thinking I'm an idiot. There is a chance she might say "yes", and I sit here...

These last weeks, things have worsened. When I meet her, I become as dull as a stone, and respond coldly and shortly to any question. This is not me, I'm usually much more cheerful. Why do I act like this on these occasions ? When I'm alone, I spend some long moments thinking about everything I could just tell her. But imagination is limited...

I've been thinking about every possible scenario. One of them was about going to her appartement (I'm at university) and tell her the truth. What would I lose ? Useless street conversations ? A friendship that has become tasteless ?

I've reached a point where I need other people's opinions. Mine is just useless.

That's strange I have to write this on a physics forum. As a matter of fact, this is the only place I found where answers seemed to make sense.

Although you claim her to be your good friend but seems like in your friendly relationship she is on higher status..you will have to do bit of mental reconditioning of your mind...create feeling of disgust for her by focussing on bad qualities of her.by concenterating bit on other beautiful gals..thinking about actresses...use whatever techniques you can to bring her at your level..and this will reduce temptation for her too...and spark confidence in you in reference to her..

by the way there is nothing to Fear man...

just keep out Desperation and if any carnal desires have developed out of picture...

if you really are a close friend of her you can certainly figure out from her body language,behaviour the most probable response of her..As a Good Friend atleast she will not be rude to you..but the point is does she also connect with you?...does your company bring smile to her face..or in anyway can you sense increased happiness in her when she is with you..

 

[turbo]

Welcome, Valayar. Just be a friend, be considerate, listen to her, and try to spend time doing enjoyable things together. If there is common ground, you will find it without having to try. Let her make the first move (and the second move, if possible) so that she is trying to find a way to communicate with you instead of you pursuing her. If you've done something nice for her and she gives you a friendly kiss on the cheek, take her hand, look at her and smile and express yourself. Keep it friendly and honest. If you're a little excited and you blush, that's OK too. Women like men who are accessible and that they can maybe put off-balance with a personal touch.

Just be NICE. Even if nothing happens with this lady, if she values you as a friend, she will be thinking which of her friends would be perfect for you. The most valuable piece of advice that I could give a man your age is to cultivate friendships with women. It doesn't matter if you're attracted to them physically (you don't want to jump your best buddy, do you?) - you need to have female friends who share some interests, to stay well-rounded. A lady with whom you have nothing in common, except some academic or professional interests can still be a whole lot of fun to hang out with. Your female friends will watch your back and take care of you. I had lots of male friends in college, but my female friends got me invited to better parties with better food and music, and introduced me to new folks, including more women. If you hang out with guys sharing the occasional pizza/poker night and hitting the bars once in a while, you will know how to socialize with guys just like you. That's not enough. Females are not mysterious aliens. My closest, dearest friend in college was a woman. We shared interests in poetry, music, art... She was a leggy blond about a half a foot taller than me, and we hugged and kissed every time we met on campus between classes, and our dates often consisted of attending free university film festivals, checking out the latest installments at the art museum, taking sub sandwiches back to my room and listening to Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, and Hendrix into the night, or maybe just walking around talking. For a couple of years, we were like a symbiotic creation, and neither of us could manage to spend any time away from the other. We shared everything, no matter how petty or how personal and important.

Remember that women are people, just like men, and are just as prone to faults and weaknesses. I personally found them a whole lot more fun to be around in part due to the exposure to alternate ways of looking at life, and because of the possibilities for friendships to become something more. Don't ever push it. If it's right, it will happen.

 

[heman]

There are two important things which i want you to keep in mind

- Some females can show paradoxical effect to compliments.So its very important that you remember that right thing be said only at right time.If you get any compliment popped up for the lady.. store in it ur mind...and just wait for right moment..and right moments always come!

-one other thing is that every human being has some sort of affiliation need in reference to all his acquaintainces and friends which varies from person to person.So if you are good friend then most probably her affiliation need in reference to you must be fixed and regular by now.And you would have to certainly disturb that level.You would have to sometimes ignore or not give her enough importance to set some kind of dissonance in her mind and then later at right time suddenly give her enough importance and do something that create impact on her mind.

 

[Astronuc]

A lady with whom you have nothing in common, except some academic or professional interests can still be a whole lot of fun to hang out with. Your female friends will watch your back and take care of you. I had lots of male friends in college, but my female friends got me invited to better parties with better food and music, and introduced me to new folks, including more women.

That was my experience at university. I enjoyed the company of those woman, more so than I did with my male friends. I think I got invited to some parties because the women involved new I was no nonsense and I could keep other guys in line, so perhaps I was unofficial security - and I was useful in the kitchen and helped clean up afterwards.

 

[Valayar]

First, thanks for all the answers !

(by the way, I'm a man. I didn't mention it)

Although you claim her to be your good friend but seems like in your friendly relationship she is on higher status..you will have to do bit of mental reconditioning of your mind...create feeling of disgust for her by focussing on bad qualities of her.by concenterating bit on other beautiful gals..thinking about actresses...use whatever techniques you can to bring her at your level..and this will reduce temptation for her too...and spark confidence in you in reference to her..

I can understand the technique, but I don't think it will work... There is much more in her than simply visual appearance. There are things that makes her unique, and even the most wonderful women in the world can't make me forget that. She's someone I know well...

if you really are a close friend of her you can certainly figure out from her body language,behaviour the most probable response of her..As a Good Friend atleast she will not be rude to you..but the point is does she also connect with you?...does your company bring smile to her face..or in anyway can you sense increased happiness in her when she is with you..

These are difficult questions. I think that in general she behaves with other people very openly. Of course my company brings smile to her face, and she looks happy to see me... but I just can't make any assumptions about her real feelings. She often touches me softly on the shoulder. And so what ? She might well do the same with any other person. I've badly observed her, I don't even know how exactly she behaves with other people.

Strangely, I have many female friends. Although I don't think any of them could be eligible to be my "best friend". I think Astronuc has digged up the right argument : when there are some feelings involved, I become different.

I don't know if I'm angry at her. There is no reason for that... But I'm certainly angry at myself and at the situation, because nothing evolves.

I'll try to call her on Monday. There is a good chance I'll be able to see her, but I still don't really know what I'm going to do. After ignoring her so much, I don't know how I could find any strength to ask her out (as far as I know, she doesn't have a boyfriend).

Thanks for the welcome messages. ;-)

 

[heman]

@Astronuc : hehehe
so that's the secret of your muscles
Do females in your workplace interact with you a lot and very friendly towards you?

 

[rewebster]

She may be thinking of you 'still' as a 'friend'---(non-romantic)---and the scenario of going from 'friend' to '(more than a friend)' had been the plot of many romantic comedies in the movies---for many reasons--one of the main reasons, it can be awkward.

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't know if I'm angry at her. There is no reason for that... But I'm certainly angry at myself and at the situation, because nothing evolves.

It sounds like you are frustrated. If you let that fester it could destroy your friendship. Without a friendship I don't see how the two of you could have a healthy relationship. You have to find a solution for your frustration before you can do anything positive.

Can you accept remaining her friend without any romantic involvement? If you ask her to be your girlfriend and she rejects you could you still be her friend? If the answer to both of those questions is 'yes' then I think you should find a way to show your interest in a romantic relationship to her. That can be as simple as holding her hand at the movie theater or looking into her eyes for a few more seconds than is normal. If she accepts and reciprocates these gestures then it's a good bet she would like to be your girlfriend.

 

[EnumaElish]

You have the strength and courage to acknowledge your anger at yourself and the situation. Many (most?) people don't have that kind of inner strength.

My guess is your anger is revealing itself in two ways: (1) you detach (turn cold), or (2) you get "greatly depressed."

Have you ever tried to speak to a counselor or a psychologist? It can be immensely helpful. Your college may have a student counselor or a therapist, or they may be able to direct you to one. One small step is to find out who offers that kind of service at your university, then schedule a visit.

 

[Astronuc]

@Astronuc : hehehe
so that's the secret of your muscles
Do females in your workplace interact with you a lot and very friendly towards you?

Yes, as a matter of fact. I think it's more of a fraternal relationship, although there was one woman who liked to put her hands on my arms or torso when talking. That happens periodically when I'm out in public. I figure women know I'm safe.

As for the muscles, I'm rather lean so the outlines of the muscles show.

I've been doing weight training since I was 14. By the time I was 15 I could lift my own weight + (military lift) overhead. When I was 16, I worked in a gardening center, and part of the job was hefting backs of sand and soil, each of which was about 45-50 kg (~100 lbs). So I got to point where I could pickup a 100 lb bag in each hand and carry them to someone's car. I also had to carry bags of fertilizer, which were either 50 or 70 lbs, and to save time, I carried two. I also had to stack the bags, which meant lifting them overhead and tossing them upward to whomever was above.

By the time I was 18 I had max'd out all of the stations on the Universal Gym (Gladiator). I max'd out the leg press with one leg, and eventually would press about 800 lbs with each leg.

During that same period, I cycled for transportation, enjoyed playing football (soccer and US style), and ran long distance for fun.

In college I worked as a plumber and maintenance tech (pumps, motors, compressor, A/C, etc), and later did iron work. Having significant strength was a great benefit because I could do the work of two people by myself. It saved my life (more than once) and that of one other person.

I am what I am, and it's no big deal.

 

[Valayar]

All right.

I'll try something next week.

@Huckleberry : the answer to the two questions is yes :

I've known her for a few years. I've never had anything else than friends. There are other very good reasons to enjoy life (physics ;-)), and I'll certainly hold on to that, as I always did. Before posting here, I thought I could make my life a little better, and change. But I can't complain too much.

For me, I don't think that still being her friend would be a problem. However, I really don't know how she would react. I would personally find it quite strange to talk to someone who loves me as much as I love her.

As for the psychologist, for the moment I'll stick to forums and friends. This is a good idea, but things would have to worsen a little bit more before I cross that line.

Astronuc : I find it hard to press 120 lbs with BOTH legs. How did you find a machine that could make you press 800 lbs ? (adding free weights ?) Impressive.

 

[EnumaElish]

As for the psychologist, for the moment I'll stick to forums and friends. This is a good idea, but things would have to worsen a little bit more before I cross that line.

A friend's father had a hernia as a boy. He did not seek help; neither did his parents or friends. He worked, got married, had children, all the while carrying his hernia. Last month it ruptured and he had to be hospitalized. He had a big operation and stayed at the intensive care unit for at least two days. Now he is staying at home, semi-disabled after the operation, waiting to heal, which is taking a long time because he is 60 years old.

As a child I too had a hernia. During my college years I went to see a doctor. I was operated on as an outpatient -- in/out on the same day, no hospital stay. I was back on my feet the next day (technically I was back on my feet the same day).

I am glad that I went to see the doctor and did not wait for a crisis. It turned out to be one of the best decisions that I took for myself.

 

[jostpuur]

When I meet her, I become as dull as a stone, and respond coldly and shortly to any question. This is not me, I'm usually much more cheerful. Why do I act like this on these occasions ?

But I'm certainly angry at myself and at the situation, because nothing evolves.

So you cannot do what you would want to do? Or cannot be like you wanted to be? If you know what you wanted to do or be, you'll have to keep trying. You just have to win yourself. I don't think anything else could help. You have to fight against yourself, until you win. It's not impossible, although can be difficult. You wouldn't be the first one doing it

 

[Valayar]

EnumaElish : I understand the message... But trying to talk to an unknown person face to face would be quite as hard as trying to tell her something about my feelings. So I will try this last option first (anytime soon), and then maybe I'll seek another help...

All you've said has already helped. Thanks.

As jostpuur said, for now, I don't think anyone else could help.

 

[rewebster]

has she commented on your (change in) behavior toward her yet?

 

[EnumaElish]

trying to talk to an unknown person face to face would be quite as hard

He or she is not a random person. He or she is a trained professional. Not all that different from a visit to the doctor's office for a cough, and describing the symptoms.

as trying to tell her something about my feelings.

Talking always helps, all the more so if you are working though your feelings while talking.

If you find talking about feelings difficult, that may itself be a reason to talk to a professional who is getting paid to listen about them.

 

[Huckleberry]

I've known her for a few years. I've never had anything else than friends. There are other very good reasons to enjoy life (physics ;-)), and I'll certainly hold on to that, as I always did. Before posting here, I thought I could make my life a little better, and change. But I can't complain too much.

For me, I don't think that still being her friend would be a problem. However, I really don't know how she would react. I would personally find it quite strange to talk to someone who loves me as much as I love her.

Love is such an abstract word I don't even know what people mean when they say it. I know one guy that is convinced that selfishness was the motivation for all love. I have an opposite opinion, and there are many inbetween. Describing love is like describing beauty; it's in the eye of the beholder.

The good things you've written here are that you do not rely on her for happiness. You have other activities in your life and she, I'm guessing, is not the center of your world. You don't seem to be obsessed with her, which is a very good thing. Obsession is all one-sided. It's not realistic. It's the fastest way to frighten a woman. (Trust me, I know.)

You might not want to tell her you love her right away. It's confusing. You have known her for a long time so you should know how to handle this situation better than anyone here. Just try not to make a big deal of it. Make the situation an opportunity for her rather than a conflict or an ultimatum. For the sake of your friendship you should give her the opportunity to let you down lightly, but I do think you should make it known that you are interested in her. You''ll have to find the courage for that on your own. You never know what might happen if you try, but it's certain what will happen if you don't.

Good luck

 

[Astronuc]

I've known her for a few years. I've never had anything else than friends.

Do you both interact regularly, e.g. classroom or research, or do you see each other infrequently? Do you know each others interests?

Love is such an abstract word I don't even know what people mean when they say it.

I think the problem is that 'Love' is used euphemistically to describe infatution or selfish desire or lust. Infatuation is a starting point and it may or may not develop into a deeper relationship, which depends on both people, or it may dissipate if the person of one's infatuation does not reciprocate.

A relationship between two people develops/evolves because they both want it to.

If you both have some mutual interests, then invite the woman to join one in some activity, e.g. movie, play, or for a cup of coffee or lunch. Better, if you have mutual friends, arrange something with a group of friends and invite her to participate.

 

[turbo]

I think the problem is that 'Love' is used euphemistically to describe infatution or selfish desire or lust. Infatuation is a starting point and it may or may not develop into a deeper relationship, which depends on both people, or it may dissipate if the person of one's infatuation does not reciprocate.

A relationship between two people develops/evolves because they both want it to.

Valayar, think long and hard about what Astronuc has said here. If you are approaching her with a possessive, needy attitude, you are doomed to fail.

First, be her friend. If you cannot be her friend, you cannot be her lover, no matter how much you rationalize the intent of your feelings. Be honest, respectful, and fair, and she may come to trust and respect you. Without that basis, there can be no love, and a solid romantic relationship will never develop. Be yourself, be nice, and give it time. If you approach her with YOUR wants and needs before she is ready to trust you, you should prepare to be disappointed. Good luck.

 

[Huckleberry]

I think the problem is that 'Love' is used euphemistically to describe infatution or selfish desire or lust.

Yeah, but try telling that to someone who is infatuated. Just the fact that so many people don't seem able to tell the difference, yet still use the same word to describe the emotion they feel, confuses the meaning entirely. If I don't know someone well, and lack some knowledge of their relationship, I have no idea what they mean when they say they are in love. The word is meaningless to me because by trying to describe everything it succeeds in describing nothing.

If you cannot be her friend, you cannot be her lover...

Good advice, but tell the truth, you stole that from a Michael Bolton song, didn't you?

 

[rewebster]

I don't know about the 'friendship' thing every time---sometimes, it is just overwhelming desire

 

[Moonbear]

Try reading this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=179083

I think we've covered all the advice pertaining to this situation there. See if it makes better sense when it's someone else asking the question. What would you tell that person to do? Take a look at how long that thread has gone on, and how little progress he's made out of this paralyzing fear of just talking to the young lady. You'll be in the same boat unless you take action.

Personally, I think it's better to be rejected than to sit around doing nothing and going nowhere. If you get rejected, it's no worse than never asking, but if you don't ask, you'll never know if she might say yes and you're missing out on something wonderful.

Now, get rid of any notions that you're already in love, and realize you're just very attracted, and give it a chance by taking action.

 

[turbo]

Good advice, but tell the truth, you stole that from a Michael Bolton song, didn't you?

No, that's something I found out in high school and cemented in college.

BTW, I HATE Bolton. What a poseur.

 

[Huckleberry]

Personally, I think it's better to be rejected than to sit around doing nothing and going nowhere. If you get rejected, it's no worse than never asking, but if you don't ask, you'll never know if she might say yes and you're missing out on something wonderful.

Now, get rid of any notions that you're already in love, and realize you're just very attracted, and give it a chance by taking action.

This case is a little different from the one posted. He already has a friendship with this woman. I agree with you that it is better to do something than nothing, but there is more at stake in this case. There is the possibility that a rejection here could end an existing friendship, in which case it could be worse than never asking. He has something to lose. This is why the manner that he approaches her is so important.

It may also be true that they do love each other. They probably do to some extent. They have been friends for years. But what does that mean? How much of the feelings that they have for each other that are mutual is unknown. I think it would be better advice to be wary of infatuation when making decisions about how to approach this woman with an interest in furthering the relationship. People who are infatuated often make selfish decisions.

I like this little bit of advice from Astronuc

A relationship between two people develops/evolves because they both want it to.

This is what he needs to discover. Does she also want more of a relationship with him? He just needs to find a way to approach her without disrespecting her regards for him.

edit - Maybe he should just ask her how she feels about him?

 

[Evo]

I had moved away from the town I grew up in when I was in school and returned a few years later. I ran into the brother of one of my old girlfriends, and he asked me out, so we started dating casually, but he was still rebounding from a recent divorce, so I had no interest in getting involved. His roommate turned out to be another old friend that had also just recently divorced and the two were living together. One day when I called the first friend, the second friend answered the phone and just blurted out "why not me?" I had no idea what he was talking about so he had to explain that he'd also like to date me. I'd just never considered dating him, even though he was intelligent and attractive and we had spent years together in a tight group of friends in our teens.

So, I went out with him a few times, but I realized that he was also still damaged from his divorce. Deciding to stop dating just returned us to being friends again.

Anyway, the point is, although we'd been friends for years, it did not feel awkward for either of them to ask me out on a "date". If they hadn't both been bogged down with emotional baggage, who knows?

 

[heman]

That happens periodically when I'm out in public. I figure women know I'm safe.

I guess that would be because of your long beard...so even if you get excited by any chance[seems highly improbable ]your beard hides all expressions and prevents from giving unwanted signals...hmmmm..right ?

 

[heman]

Valayar...i forgot to ask one important question..Whats your nationality ?

I think whatever advices are being given,the culture effect hasnt been taken into account which really adds complications..half of the world doesn't know what happens in other half...

But yeah i would love to take a guess...you sound to me from Asian continent(?) and most probably from India itself(?) and from Kerala( ?) ..(If i am wrong..forgive me..was just testing my instinct )

 

[Valayar]

Wow, you guys are prolific.

So.

For now I've managed to install a better contact. I've had a good (or great ?) time with her and some friends yesterday. That was the first time since the beginning of the summer holiday.

Clearly nothing has changed, because I've been partly incapable of being a little bit more reckless in my intentions, and I've partly followed pieces of advice written here...

For now I completely agree that I have to keep a "low profile", as I still have much to do...

I really can meet her at anytime of the week. We don't live very far from each other, maybe 5 minutes walk. We have a lot of friends in common, and go out at the same places.

I really don't know if this is getting somewhere. I went to the cinema alone tonight, and I've been giving some more thoughts on the situation. I'm wondering if I'm not acting as someone immature. My mood keeps wobbling...

I can't help thinking that she really doesn't need me. She doesn't need any declaration. This isn't just an impression, it can't be very far from reality.
Do I have a completely selfish behaviour ? Am I trying to solve questions I can't solve without more personal experience ?

I still have that impression that I'll never be ready for nothing. Am I ready for any relationship if I'm simply unable to relativise more ?

About love itself... I can read that you have some different definitions. I can't define love. I've simply met someone very intelligent and beautiful, always smiling, with a great sense of humor... I don't get the impression to act in a play when I meet her. I have a clear contact with someone purer than anyone else.

We'll probably see each other on thursday, but that's a kind of alcohol-oriented party.

Please don't worry, I'm not going to let this topic grow as large as the other one. ;-)

@heman : wrong guess. ;-) I'm from Europe.

Good night ! (GMT +1)

 

[turbo]

I guess that would be because of your long beard...so even if you get excited by any chance[seems highly improbable ]your beard hides all expressions and prevents from giving unwanted signals...hmmmm..right ?

When you talk to Astronuc (or to me) physical appearances go out the window. I think I'm an honest person, and he has convinced me that he is at least as honest as I am. We share a lot of past culture and we are pretty straightforward on current concepts and trends.

 

[Astronuc]

I guess that would be because of your long beard...so even if you get excited by any chance[seems highly improbable ]your beard hides all expressions and prevents from giving unwanted signals...hmmmm..right ?

Well, I'm not sure I understand the question.

I have a beard, but I don't hide behind it. In fact, I recently realized, I've had a beard for the last 30 years, except for about 10 days in June 1981, when I shaved while looking for a job in the offshore oil industry. Basically beards or long hair, which would soak up oil and present a fire hazard, were allowed. I ended up getting a good paying job as an iron worker.

When you talk to Astronuc (or to me) physical appearances go out the window. I think I'm an honest person, and he has convinced me that he is at least as honest as I am. We share a lot of past culture and we are pretty straightforward on current concepts and trends.

Thanks, turbo!

Turbo and I are kindred spirits, and certainly share a lot of past culture.

I'm not too sure about recent (or rather popular) culture. I am something of an anachronism. I don't relate well to modern (popular) culture.

 

[rewebster]

"We'll probably see each other on thursday, but that's a kind of alcohol-oriented party."


That's sounds like an opportunity to 'ask' her to join you to go there---even if you know she is going and she knows you are going. Pick her up (not literally) at her home and make the trip 'to' the party together