D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system

In summary, the problem is that the two methods for finding ##\ddot x_3## give different results. The problem is that the result from Newton's law is not the same as from D'Alembert's principle.
  • #1
LuccaP4
24
9
Homework Statement
Given the system described in the picture, find the acceleration of every mass using:
a) Newton's equations
b) D'Alembert's principle

Note: Pulley's masses are negligible.
Relevant Equations
[tex] \displaystyle\sum_{i=1}^N (m_i \ddot r_i - F_i) \delta r_i = 0 [/tex]
This is the problem's picture:
picture 1.png


My problem is that what I got for one acceleration (m3's) via Newton's equations is not the same as via D'Alembert's principle (I've checked on my PC if they are the same expression).
I can't find the mistake. Any suggestion is welcome.

I attach pictures of what I did:
2288a7a3b188450ea26fbd11729010e9.png

48ccaa012a384fcd28769cce1f1b50f0.png

f8d10c4bfd0a14640ee842a6b57fc740.png

f4c4400c8a3eb2ab0d0a8bc4899ef57c.png


Thank you!
 
Last edited:
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  • #2
Can you post your work in Latex format?

Your writing comes out as very clean and precise but your image quality is very hard to read as they stand.

You can find some directions on the latex markup in a link in my signature below.
 
  • #3
I struggled just to write the principle on Latex. I'll try uploading a better image.

Edit: It won't let me upload the images because they're too big. Guess I'll type it.
 
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  • #4
Done!
 
  • #5
That’s great but did you know our site uses Mathjax which means you can write your equations as part of your post using the double # at the front and back of your expression:

## E=mc^2##

# # E = m c^2 # #

removing the spaces between the double # sequence.
 
  • #6
Thanks for the data! I'll learn it for the next time.
 
  • #8
It looks like you set up both methods correctly. I did not check all of your work, but I did check to see if your two answers for ##\ddot x_3## match.

Your Newton's law result is
1587357576850.png


Your D'Alembert result is

1587357665791.png


When solving the first equation here for ##\ddot x_3##, you missed an overall negative sign. (Maybe you just forgot to type it.) Other than that, your two results for ##\ddot x_3## are equivalent.

The result can be simplified to look a little nicer with some manipulations. Try taking your result from Newton's law and combining the terms to make one fraction.
 
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  • #9
Yes, I typed it wrong (copy-paste from above :doh:) but wrote it right. The numerator is negative.
So if they're equivalent, I'll try simplifying the result and go on with the other accelerations.
Thanks for your answer!
 
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  • #10
I solved it, thanks for the help. I attach the entire solution, if anyone is interested.
 

Attachments

  • Pulley system.pdf
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Related to D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system

1. What is D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system?

D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system is a mechanical principle that states that the sum of the forces acting on a pulley system in equilibrium is equal to zero. This principle is based on the laws of motion and is used to analyze the motion of objects in a pulley system.

2. How does D'Alembert's principle apply to a pulley system?

In a pulley system, D'Alembert's principle is used to determine the tension in the ropes or cables that are supporting the system. It states that the total force acting on the pulley system must be balanced in order for the system to be in equilibrium.

3. What are the key components of D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system?

The key components of D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system include the forces acting on the system, the mass of the objects involved, and the acceleration of the system. These components are used to calculate the tension in the ropes or cables and to determine if the system is in equilibrium.

4. How is D'Alembert's principle used to solve problems in a pulley system?

D'Alembert's principle is used to solve problems in a pulley system by setting up equations that represent the forces acting on the system and then solving for the unknown variables, such as tension or acceleration. This principle allows for a systematic approach to analyzing the motion of objects in a pulley system.

5. Are there any limitations to D'Alembert's principle on a pulley system?

Yes, D'Alembert's principle may not be applicable in cases where the pulley system is accelerating or if there are non-conservative forces present, such as friction. It also assumes that the ropes or cables are massless and inextensible, which may not always be the case in real-world scenarios.

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