Coordinate and dual basis vectors and metric tensor

In summary, the conversation discusses an introductory book on General Relativity by H Hobson and the relationship between coordinate and dual basis vectors. The conversation includes an analysis of a proof and a discussion on the definition of vectors and covectors. The conversation ends with a question about a dual basis transformation.
  • #1
Halaaku
23
0
I have been reading an introductory book to General Relativity by H Hobson. I have been following it step by step and now I am stuck. It is stated in the book that:
"It is straightforward to show that the coordinate and dual basis vectors
themselves are related...
"ea = gabeb ..."

I have been trying to prove it as follows:
ea.eb=gab=gaf[itex]\delta[/itex]fb
=gaf(ef.eb)
(ea-gafef).eb=0
Because eb≠0, the other side is and hence proved the given statement.
My question: is it a correct approach?
 
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  • #2
Hi Halaaku. Welcome to Physics Forums.

Yes. This analysis looks good to me.
 
  • #3
Hi Halaaku,

What is important to understand here is that ea and eb are vectors, not numbers. Therefore, (ea-gafef).eb = 0 only means that ea-gafef and eb are two orthogonal vectors (because the dot between them is a scalar product, not a multiplication). So the result can not be shownin this way.

A good way of doing it is the following. A vector w can be written in two ways: w = waea and w = wbeb. Therefore, waea = wbeb. From the previous equation in the book, you also know that wb = gbcwc. It yields waea = gbcwceb. Now, the index c in the right-hand side is summed over. It means that it is a dummy index which can be renamed a. By doing it, it leads to waea = gbawaeb. Since this relation holds for any arbitrary vector w of coordinates wa, it is possible to "divide" by wa on both sides. It follows that ea = gbaeb and finally ea = gabeb since gab = gba.

I hope this helps.

Bye!
 
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  • #4
Halaaku said:
I have been reading an introductory book to General Relativity by H Hobson. I have been following it step by step and now I am stuck. It is stated in the book that:
"It is straightforward to show that the coordinate and dual basis vectors
themselves are related...
"ea = gabeb ..."

Hmm. Different books have different definitions, but the way I understand it, from Misner, Thorne and Wheeler's Gravitation, you would never write a vector and a co-vector as linear combinations of each other. They're just different types of objects.

A co-vector is a function that takes a vector and returns a scalar. A co-vector is a different type of mathematical object than a vector, so it doesn't make sense (in this way of defining things) to say that a co-vector is a equal to a certain combination of vectors.
 
  • #5
That expression isn't saying that a covector is a combination of vectors. It's saying that covectors and vectors have a bijective correspondence under the musical isomorphism between the tangent and cotangent space, with the musical isomorphism being provided by the metric tensor. This is simply the formal way of saying that the metric tensor allows one to raise and lower indices.

It's analogous to the Reisz representation theorem.
 
  • #6
FunWarrior said:
Hi Halaaku,

What is important to understand here is that ea and eb are vectors, not numbers. Therefore, (ea-gafef).eb = 0 only means that ea-gafef and eb are two orthogonal vectors (because the dot between them is a scalar product, not a multiplication). So the result can not be shownin this way.

Since eb can be arbitrary, subject only only to the condition that it cannot be expressed as a linear combination of the other coordinate basis vectors, it would seen that the dot product being equal to zero would imply that the vector in parenthesis is zero.
 
  • #7
@FunWarrior: You are right in pointing out that if A.B=0, then A and B are orthogonal. Your proof totally makes sense. Thank you so much!
 
  • #8
One more question again related to the proof:
Displacement between two nearby points P and Q=
ds= dxa ea=dx'a e'a
dxa=([itex]\partial[/itex]xa/[itex]\partial[/itex]x'b)*dx'b
I plug this in dxaea
=([itex]\partial[/itex]xa/[itex]\partial[/itex]x'b)*dx'bea=dx'ae'a
I do not know what to do next. I am suppose to get:
e'a=([itex]\partial[/itex]xb/[itex]\partial[/itex]x'a)eb
 
  • #9
Oh I just saw it... Relabelling of indices on the RHS to b. dx'b would cancel with the dx'b on the LHS and I get my answer.
 
  • #10
For the dual basis transformation I take ds= dxaea=dx'ae'a
I proceed as I had done for the vectors but I get the following:
e'a=[itex]\partial[/itex]xb/[itex]\partial[/itex]x'a eb

I should be getting:
e'a=([itex]\partial[/itex]x'a /[itex]\partial[/itex]xb) eb
:confused:
 
Last edited:

Related to Coordinate and dual basis vectors and metric tensor

What are coordinate basis vectors?

Coordinate basis vectors are a set of vectors that form the basis of a coordinate system. They are usually chosen to be orthogonal and unit length, and are used to represent points in space.

What are dual basis vectors?

Dual basis vectors are a set of vectors that form the dual basis of a coordinate system. They are defined as the set of vectors that satisfy the property that their inner product with any coordinate basis vector is equal to 0, except for the inner product with the corresponding coordinate basis vector, which is equal to 1.

What is the metric tensor?

The metric tensor is a mathematical object used in the study of differential geometry. It is a symmetric, second-order tensor that describes the local geometry of a space. It is used to define the inner product between vectors and to measure distances and angles in a space.

How are coordinate basis vectors and dual basis vectors related?

Coordinate basis vectors and dual basis vectors are related by the metric tensor. The metric tensor is used to define the inner product between vectors, and is used to map vectors from one basis to the other. The metric tensor also determines the length and angle measurements in a space.

Why are coordinate basis vectors and dual basis vectors important?

Coordinate basis vectors and dual basis vectors are important in many areas of mathematics and physics. They are used to represent points and vectors in a space, and are crucial in understanding concepts such as curvature, distance, and angle measurements. They also play a key role in the study of general relativity and differential geometry.

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