Am I the only one getting sick of anti-drug laws?

[ShawnD]

These laws are getting out of hand. We're losing our freedom to actually learn things because of the fear of drugs.

First they made drugs illegal, and some can easily argue this is a good thing. Such examples of these illegal things:
-cocaine
-heroin and derivatives
-amphetamine and derivatives
-lysergic acid diethylamide
-psilocybin
-phencyclindine
-gamma-hydroxybutyric acid
-ketamine

These substances are very very strongly controlled. You can only get some of these if you're a doctor or veterinarian.
Then they made precursors illegal
-benzene
-toluene
-xylene
-ethylbenzene
-phenethylamine
-gamma-butyrolactone
-ephedrine

These can be found in a lot of things, but they can't be pure. Benzene and toluene are in your gasoline, but you can't buy them pure without a license. Ephedrine is a key ingredient in drugs like Contac and Sudafed; you can no longer buy ephedrine in the form of diet pills which were much more concentrated. Gamma-butyrolactone is used in making pesticides, but it's also used in making GHB; it's now illegal.Then they made everything illegal
-iodine
-sodium
-potassium
-lithium
-sodamide
-sodium borohydride
-red phosphorus
-anhydrous ammonia
-sulfuric acid
-phosphoric acid
-ether
-pyridine
-chloroform
-methylene chloride
-carbon tetrachloride

Again, you need a license to buy these just because they're used for organic chemistry. Lithium, sodium, potassium, sodamide, and sodium borohydride are illegal because they are reducing agents (remove the OH group on ephedrine). Red phosphorus is a catalyst for making meth, so it's now illegal. Anhydrous ammonia is a great source for amino groups when making meth, so it's now illegal without the proper paperwork. Sulfuric and phosphoric acid are acid catalists in many organic reactions, so they're illegal. Ether, pyridine, chloroform, methylene chloride, and carbon tetrachloride are common organic solvents used for solvent extraction of organic compounds, so they are now illegal.This is getting stupid. Why are we making every damn thing on the planet illegal? Next we'll make water illegal because it's a key ingredient in making crack cocaine. Am I the only person getting annoyed by this?

 

[mrjeffy321]

I totally agree.

It was a dark day indeed for me when I found out the Red Devil"company, or more acurately, Reckitt-Benckiser, was discontinuing its, "Red Devil Lye" drain cleaner, which is an excellent source for cheap, over the counter 100% NaOH.
NaOH has so many uses, but now because of the potential for use in making drugs, pressure is being put on to discontinue it. I called and confirmed it myself with the company, but they didnt give a straight answer as to why.
http://candleandsoap.about.com/b/a/203763.htm

Some of those items you mentioned can still be gotten without a permit, although perhaps not legally.
Toluene and xylene can be bought as painting supplies (perhaps not pure?).
Iodine you can get off ebay, and certain web sites will sell you Sodium metal. again, they probably arent suppose to, but they do anyway.

 

[Moonbear]

Then they made everything illegal
-iodine
-sodium
-potassium
-lithium
-sodamide
-sodium borohydride
-red phosphorus
-anhydrous ammonia
-sulfuric acid
-phosphoric acid
-ether
-pyridine
-chloroform
-methylene chloride
-carbon tetrachloride
Again, you need a license to buy these just because they're used for organic chemistry. Lithium, sodium, potassium, sodamide, and sodium borohydride are illegal because they are reducing agents (remove the OH group on ephedrine). Red phosphorus is a catalyst for making meth, so it's now illegal. Anhydrous ammonia is a great source for amino groups when making meth, so it's now illegal without the proper paperwork. Sulfuric and phosphoric acid are acid catalists in many organic reactions, so they're illegal. Ether, pyridine, chloroform, methylene chloride, and carbon tetrachloride are common organic solvents used for solvent extraction of organic compounds, so they are now illegal.

You need a license to obtain them not because of drug laws, but because they're hazardous substances by themselves that require proper precautions for handling and disposal. This is not new.

 

[Pengwuino]

You need a license to obtain them not because of drug laws, but because they're hazardous substances by themselves that require proper precautions for handling and disposal. This is not new.

Yah I mean chloroform... think of how many people would die if that was as easy to get as coca cola... or ether...sheesh!

Why not toss C4 into that mix.

 

[Moonbear]

My issue with drug laws is that now that stupid kids want to inject themselves with veterinary drugs, I have to go through ridiculous hoops to obtain those drugs for their intended purpose...sedating animals. And for those who think it's perfectly safe, I just had two sheep die on me today from ketamine. It's rare, but it happens (and really pissed me off to have two in the same day...I dumped the rest of that bottle in the event the batch was bad; I'm not taking any chances on losing more animals on it...I'd rather waste money on drugs than have my animals dying). And idiot kids inject themselves with this stuff!

 

[ShawnD]

You need a license to obtain them not because of drug laws, but because they're hazardous substances by themselves that require proper precautions for handling and disposal. This is not new.

I wish that were true. Why do you need a permit for sulfuric and phosphoric acid, but you can buy very strong hydrochloric or nitric acid at a hardware store? Hydrochloric acid, when it's not in water, is a gas, so that instantly makes it a million times worse than sulfuric acid. Nitric acid is a much stronger oxidizer than sulfuric acid is, so why aren't HCl and HNO3 illegal? It's because chloride is not a great leaving group (bad as a catalyst), and nitrate tends to oxidize things (bad as a catalyst). I've had concentrated sulfuric spilled on my hand before and it wasn't a problem; it rinses right off with lots of cold water (but it has to be lots of fast flowing cold water). Nitric acid is much much worse because even if it's on your skin for just a second, your skin turns yellow and will peel off in a few days.

As for anhydrous ammonia, how is this different from regular ammonia for cleaning your oven? Oh my god it lacks water, let's go nuts. Spill some ammonia water on the floor and tell me it's safer than anhydrous ammonia; that ammonia gets into the air faster than you can imagine.

Iodine in low concentrations is used to disinfect cuts. It's no more dangerous than lye, which was at one time readily available. RIP Red Devil.

Chloroform, methylene chloride, and carbon tetrachloride are common ingredients in paint stripper. It has all 3 because they're basically the same thing but reacted a different amount, look at the trend in the formulas: CH2Cl2 (methylene), CHCl3 (chloroform), CCl4 (carbon tet).

Yah I mean chloroform... think of how many people would die if that was as easy to get as coca cola... or ether...sheesh!

Why not toss C4 into that mix.

Ether is the main ingredient in that "engine starter" fluid you can buy at a hardware shop, so it's clearly not a safety issue if so many people have it. You can't really use it for extractions though because it's mixed with other crap like hexane.

 

[mrjeffy321]

Up until today, I didnt know this, but appearently, here it Texas (and the same is true to a degree in other states), many types of lab glassware is also prohibited either without a permit or even all together, for the specific reason of potential drug making.

From Texas statute 481.080, makes it a misdemeanor (subject to a $4000 fine) for an individual to own certain chemicals and lab equipment.

"Chemical laboratory apparatus" means any item of
equipment designed, made, or adapted to manufacture a controlled
substance or a controlled substance analogue, including:
(A) a condenser;
(B) a distilling apparatus;
(C) a vacuum drier;
(D) a three-neck or distilling flask;
(E) a tableting machine;
(F) an encapsulating machine;
(G) a filter, Buchner, or separatory funnel;
(H) an Erlenmeyer, two-neck, or single-neck
flask;
(I) a round-bottom, Florence, thermometer, or
filtering flask;
(J) a Soxhlet extractor;
(K) a transformer;
(L) a flask heater;
(M) a heating mantel; or
(N) an adaptor tube.

 

[Pengwuino]

... you can't have a thermometer...

 

[Moonbear]

I wish that were true. Why do you need a permit for sulfuric and phosphoric acid, but you can buy very strong hydrochloric or nitric acid at a hardware store? Hydrochloric acid, when it's not in water, is a gas, so that instantly makes it a million times worse than sulfuric acid. Nitric acid is a much stronger oxidizer than sulfuric acid is, so why aren't HCl and HNO3 illegal? It's because chloride is not a great leaving group (bad as a catalyst), and nitrate tends to oxidize things (bad as a catalyst). I've had concentrated sulfuric spilled on my hand before and it wasn't a problem; it rinses right off with lots of cold water (but it has to be lots of fast flowing cold water). Nitric acid is much much worse because even if it's on your skin for just a second, your skin turns yellow and will peel off in a few days.

Where the heck do you live? Are you sure you can buy it undiluted at the hardware store? Those are all strong acids...at least here in the US, you're not getting any of them without going through a chemical supply company that verifies you're a legitimate lab or business that has the licensing to use these chemicals.

As for anhydrous ammonia, how is this different from regular ammonia for cleaning your oven? [/quore]
Are you that naive about these chemicals? The ammonia you use for cleaning is VERY dilute. There's really no reason any average person not working in a lab or industrial setting should need any of those chemicals in undiluted form.

Iodine in low concentrations is used to disinfect cuts.

Again, you're talking the difference between very dilute solutions and the pure metals.

Ether is the main ingredient in that "engine starter" fluid you can buy at a hardware shop, so it's clearly not a safety issue if so many people have it.

Ether is VERY hazardous! Geez, we found some in an old lab that was being cleaned out, and for it to be removed, we had to evacuate the building while the hazmat workers placed it into an explosion-proof case to take it away. One little spark or a bit of static electricity is all it takes to explode it and turn the can it comes into shrapnel. We had one lab in the department that had to do ether extractions, and they had to work in a room that looked like a closet that was designed to contain any explosions (not much to do for the person performing the procedure if it exploded, but only one technician was permitted to do it who was trained to handle it properly).

You can't really use it for extractions though because it's mixed with other crap like hexane.

Well, good. If regulating these hazardous chemicals has the added effect of limiting illegal drug manufacturing, then that's great. If you were hoping to use this forum to promote something illegal or to find a way around the regulations, you're sorely mistaken. Thread closed.